1 00:00:04,340 --> 00:00:02,570 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:05,539 --> 00:00:04,350 triangle you know there's explanation 3 00:00:07,490 --> 00:00:05,549 for everything that occurred in the 4 00:00:10,009 --> 00:00:07,500 rendlesham forest incident it doesn't 5 00:00:13,370 --> 00:00:10,019 involve aliens at all it was completely 6 00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:13,380 silent it comes right over our head it's 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:16,230 so a classic flying-saucer really 8 00:00:19,580 --> 00:00:17,850 standing in the clearing he turned over 9 00:00:20,870 --> 00:00:19,590 to my father and held his hand and he 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:20,880 looked in his eyes and said we're not 11 00:00:30,470 --> 00:00:27,570 alone welcome to Podcast UFO for our 12 00:00:32,690 --> 00:00:30,480 live show we're live every wednesday at 13 00:00:34,970 --> 00:00:32,700 eight pm eastern standard time on the 14 00:00:36,970 --> 00:00:34,980 Dark Matter radio network please 15 00:00:40,940 --> 00:00:36,980 remember to visit the website podcast 16 00:00:43,430 --> 00:00:40,950 UFO calm for past episodes blogs and 17 00:00:45,470 --> 00:00:43,440 forums during the show feel free to 18 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:45,480 participate live in our chat room and 19 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:47,910 don't forget to Like us on our very 20 00:00:53,959 --> 00:00:51,600 active Facebook page hello and welcome 21 00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:53,969 to Podcast UFO on the Dark Matter Radio 22 00:00:59,420 --> 00:00:56,399 Network this is michael luke filling in 23 00:01:02,389 --> 00:00:59,430 for Martin Willis uh Martin is still on 24 00:01:05,179 --> 00:01:02,399 his globe dropping his klobe trotting 25 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:05,189 ways if you are following him on our 26 00:01:10,490 --> 00:01:07,650 very active Facebook page you might know 27 00:01:13,969 --> 00:01:10,500 that he has actually sprained his ankle 28 00:01:16,399 --> 00:01:13,979 so now he is having a vacation full of 29 00:01:18,140 --> 00:01:16,409 downtime and boredom I wouldn't be 30 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:18,150 surprised if he is listening now even 31 00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:20,310 though there is a substantial time 32 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:22,590 difference between us here in the states 33 00:01:28,550 --> 00:01:26,130 and him here or he there wherever he is 34 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:28,560 I am not even going to try to pronounce 35 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:30,210 the name of this town I don't know if 36 00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:32,700 anybody else has has seen it it's about 37 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:36,270 18 letters long and then when I was like 38 00:01:39,830 --> 00:01:37,890 wow that's you know quite a name he sent 39 00:01:43,249 --> 00:01:39,840 me the name in Cyrillic as if that was 40 00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:43,259 going to clarify it for me um it it 41 00:01:47,810 --> 00:01:44,790 didn't Martin if you're listening I 42 00:01:50,569 --> 00:01:47,820 still don't know where you are but we're 43 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:50,579 hoping you feel better um I'm Michael 44 00:01:55,819 --> 00:01:53,130 out if you have been a longtime listener 45 00:01:58,670 --> 00:01:55,829 you probably know that I used to do the 46 00:02:00,770 --> 00:01:58,680 news before Alejandro and then once the 47 00:02:03,469 --> 00:02:00,780 show's went live I kind of drifted off 48 00:02:06,679 --> 00:02:03,479 into the sunset still right for the show 49 00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:06,689 occasionally and fill in as a guest host 50 00:02:10,609 --> 00:02:08,640 here and there what have I been doing 51 00:02:13,809 --> 00:02:10,619 because I do have some people ask me 52 00:02:17,170 --> 00:02:13,819 that uh when I left I was very sick so 53 00:02:19,209 --> 00:02:17,180 people are aware that arm ended up 54 00:02:22,629 --> 00:02:19,219 having something called celiac disease 55 00:02:25,509 --> 00:02:22,639 which is a uh it's explained as a gluten 56 00:02:29,470 --> 00:02:25,519 allergy a lot it's not it's uh actually 57 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:29,480 my body treating the proteins and 58 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:31,609 glutinous if it was a disease it's a 59 00:02:35,259 --> 00:02:33,889 really weird kind of thing but I'm 60 00:02:37,959 --> 00:02:35,269 feeling a lot better now I'm actually 61 00:02:39,849 --> 00:02:37,969 doing martial arts again and starting to 62 00:02:42,670 --> 00:02:39,859 look at going back into my career as a 63 00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:42,680 professional magician and so I'm doing 64 00:02:46,330 --> 00:02:44,329 pretty well all the way around thanks 65 00:02:48,849 --> 00:02:46,340 for asking i also have a new book out 66 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:48,859 which I know it's been mentioned on our 67 00:02:52,209 --> 00:02:50,810 Facebook page as well if anybody wants 68 00:02:54,250 --> 00:02:52,219 to check it out it's called Grand 69 00:02:57,189 --> 00:02:54,260 Tournament you can find it on Amazon and 70 00:03:00,819 --> 00:02:57,199 paperback or ebook it's not a UFO book 71 00:03:03,339 --> 00:03:00,829 sorry to disappoint it is a if your 72 00:03:05,439 --> 00:03:03,349 high-minded it is a english language 73 00:03:08,679 --> 00:03:05,449 take on the chinese whoosh ah literary 74 00:03:11,140 --> 00:03:08,689 tradition if you are low-minded it is a 75 00:03:13,390 --> 00:03:11,150 kung fu novel kung fu movie you can read 76 00:03:17,289 --> 00:03:13,400 so either if we either one of those 77 00:03:20,289 --> 00:03:17,299 grabs you check it out on amazon one 78 00:03:23,259 --> 00:03:20,299 other little bit of business we don't do 79 00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:23,269 as you all know the astronomy so much 80 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:25,040 anymore on the show but i want to 81 00:03:27,939 --> 00:03:26,090 mention to all our listeners 82 00:03:30,069 --> 00:03:27,949 particularly in north america there is a 83 00:03:33,550 --> 00:03:30,079 lunar eclipse this weekend the sunday 84 00:03:36,249 --> 00:03:33,560 night go out and check it out you should 85 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:36,259 be able to look up on the internet where 86 00:03:40,929 --> 00:03:38,750 and win is going to be the best location 87 00:03:43,809 --> 00:03:40,939 for you and your area to see it but get 88 00:03:46,379 --> 00:03:43,819 out there and sky watch you know um it's 89 00:03:50,170 --> 00:03:46,389 uh it's a great hobby and if you're 90 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:50,180 looking for the UFOs it's a good thing 91 00:03:55,330 --> 00:03:52,430 if you know what's already supposed to 92 00:03:57,309 --> 00:03:55,340 be up in the skies so you know get a get 93 00:03:59,050 --> 00:03:57,319 a cheap pair of astronomy binoculars 94 00:04:01,059 --> 00:03:59,060 they're not that much their way easier 95 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:01,069 to use in a telescope and and start sky 96 00:04:07,509 --> 00:04:03,889 watching now with all that business 97 00:04:10,509 --> 00:04:07,519 aside lets get to tonight's guest and 98 00:04:13,089 --> 00:04:10,519 into the show on tonight's show is going 99 00:04:15,789 --> 00:04:13,099 to be two hours free for everyone as you 100 00:04:18,430 --> 00:04:15,799 know we're we're switching supporter 101 00:04:22,269 --> 00:04:18,440 platforms here at podcast UFO that 102 00:04:24,430 --> 00:04:22,279 should all be arranged shortly after 103 00:04:27,820 --> 00:04:24,440 Martin returns and Martin will be back 104 00:04:29,710 --> 00:04:27,830 next week so this this week's free 105 00:04:32,140 --> 00:04:29,720 for everybody enjoy it's going to be two 106 00:04:34,749 --> 00:04:32,150 hours with our guest mr. William 107 00:04:36,670 --> 00:04:34,759 Garbowsky who is the author of black 108 00:04:40,420 --> 00:04:36,680 light perspectives on mysterious 109 00:04:42,369 --> 00:04:40,430 phenomena and a bunch of fiction which 110 00:04:44,589 --> 00:04:42,379 we're going to talk about as well as how 111 00:04:46,899 --> 00:04:44,599 we went from fiction and nonfiction and 112 00:04:48,850 --> 00:04:46,909 why he's in this whole paranormal mess 113 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:48,860 to begin with and that seems like a 114 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:51,050 great time to just go ahead and say 115 00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:55,550 William are there I yes sir thanks for 116 00:05:01,860 --> 00:04:57,199 having me on Michael alright do you 117 00:05:07,510 --> 00:05:01,870 prefer William erbil we can go with bill 118 00:05:09,550 --> 00:05:07,520 bill bill it is okay um let's the 119 00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:09,560 easiest way to do let's let's you know 120 00:05:14,379 --> 00:05:11,300 we're always going to have somebody in 121 00:05:18,459 --> 00:05:14,389 the audience going ok this guy wrote a 122 00:05:21,939 --> 00:05:18,469 book on paranormal phenomena why should 123 00:05:23,379 --> 00:05:21,949 I care what he thinks so let's I mean 124 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:23,389 let's just be point blank and say why 125 00:05:30,820 --> 00:05:25,310 should we care what you think as opposed 126 00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:30,830 to anyone else out there sure and I 127 00:05:36,790 --> 00:05:33,440 asked the question at every time I see a 128 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:36,800 new book that you know treating treating 129 00:05:43,119 --> 00:05:39,050 the subjective Beautiful's related 130 00:05:46,959 --> 00:05:43,129 paranormal from basic forte and weird 131 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:46,969 things and i guess i preface it with as 132 00:05:52,719 --> 00:05:49,610 opposed to a great deal of those books 133 00:05:54,999 --> 00:05:52,729 I'm probably about as I mentioned a 134 00:06:00,189 --> 00:05:55,009 George Knapp probably about ninety-eight 135 00:06:02,649 --> 00:06:00,199 percent on that scale and my purpose in 136 00:06:05,019 --> 00:06:02,659 writing black like black light was 137 00:06:08,529 --> 00:06:05,029 basically to deconstruct everything I've 138 00:06:11,019 --> 00:06:08,539 ever read or encountered about UFOs 139 00:06:13,540 --> 00:06:11,029 paranormal phenomena by the way which I 140 00:06:17,230 --> 00:06:13,550 I'm one of the psychosocial people 141 00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:17,240 hopefully not just a cycle and I think 142 00:06:23,740 --> 00:06:20,960 those two the two fun related but in my 143 00:06:27,189 --> 00:06:23,750 book I pretty much deconstruct those and 144 00:06:29,559 --> 00:06:27,199 try and take the take as much the noise 145 00:06:32,379 --> 00:06:29,569 not a signal as and I can I strip it 146 00:06:35,079 --> 00:06:32,389 down to the to the raw data now I'm not 147 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:35,089 the first guy to do this but I think I 148 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:37,490 don't I don't know if recently that's 149 00:06:41,140 --> 00:06:39,289 been the approach in a lot of books i'm 150 00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:41,150 seeing kind of a return 151 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:47,540 to a lot of peer irrationality worship 152 00:06:52,690 --> 00:06:49,780 of the expert west high paw phasis and 153 00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:52,700 and blacklight pretty much tells you how 154 00:07:01,090 --> 00:06:56,510 why i think this way and how I got there 155 00:07:02,650 --> 00:07:01,100 and what do I make of you know we're all 156 00:07:05,380 --> 00:07:02,660 sick of hearing about laws will but I 157 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:05,390 have a chapter on that and just UFO 158 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:10,670 phenomenon in general so that would I 159 00:07:14,770 --> 00:07:12,860 guess that's sweet carissa to why I 160 00:07:20,410 --> 00:07:14,780 wrote the book and why should anyone 161 00:07:22,510 --> 00:07:20,420 care well they have to but um they're 162 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:22,520 not going to get in black lights are not 163 00:07:27,850 --> 00:07:25,250 going to get the same old um you know I 164 00:07:29,530 --> 00:07:27,860 want to believe attitude because as I 165 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:29,540 mentioned my introduction I don't want 166 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:32,090 to believe I don't believe I want I just 167 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:35,690 one along and and of course that's your 168 00:07:41,410 --> 00:07:38,990 jumping into a you know a pit of snakes 169 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:41,420 with that attitude but that is that's 170 00:07:46,030 --> 00:07:43,910 sick I would rather really know what's 171 00:07:49,870 --> 00:07:46,040 going on if it's possible to ever know 172 00:07:55,150 --> 00:07:49,880 and to kind of have a religious you know 173 00:07:58,090 --> 00:07:55,160 a faith faith in it okay and Ed just so 174 00:07:59,860 --> 00:07:58,100 everybody knows um I asked the question 175 00:08:01,720 --> 00:07:59,870 that bluntly because I've read the book 176 00:08:06,130 --> 00:08:01,730 and I figured you're the kind of guy you 177 00:08:08,830 --> 00:08:06,140 you would take that and not bad not be 178 00:08:11,290 --> 00:08:08,840 offended so I hopefully I although yeah 179 00:08:13,540 --> 00:08:11,300 and so I just what i want the listeners 180 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:13,550 to know that that's kind of the attitude 181 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:16,370 of the book is you are very blunt and 182 00:08:19,810 --> 00:08:18,650 and outspoken and you're going to say 183 00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:19,820 what you think which is which is a 184 00:08:26,740 --> 00:08:23,840 definitely a good way to be um before we 185 00:08:28,990 --> 00:08:26,750 get into the book a little bit let's 186 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:29,000 let's talk about you so people know who 187 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:31,910 who they're listening to uh you you are 188 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:35,390 an author and you've written what is it 189 00:08:40,630 --> 00:08:38,810 seven other novels are actual novels not 190 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:40,640 non-fiction books and a whole slew of 191 00:08:49,810 --> 00:08:44,980 short stories um what what is your usual 192 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:49,820 genre what are you usually writing okay 193 00:08:55,060 --> 00:08:51,860 well I can a lot of jumping back and 194 00:08:58,930 --> 00:08:55,070 forth when I first started out 195 00:09:01,240 --> 00:08:58,940 I was waiting for a horror magazine 196 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:01,250 called the horror Phil back in the early 197 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:03,950 80s I was with them for five years um 198 00:09:08,860 --> 00:09:06,650 they end up winning world fantasy award 199 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:08,870 my job there was I was hired to 200 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:11,420 interview Horror Writers I got to 201 00:09:19,810 --> 00:09:16,970 interview dean koontz Clive Barker show 202 00:09:21,730 --> 00:09:19,820 our lansdale who posed a big guy in 203 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:21,740 Texas so the preferred have heard of him 204 00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:24,650 oh yeah Lance Elizabeth the book bubba 205 00:09:30,940 --> 00:09:28,160 hotep right I was just gonna say this an 206 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:30,950 excellent so yes you didn't know yeah so 207 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:32,810 I yeah I'm I don't you know pretty well 208 00:09:38,050 --> 00:09:35,150 but but anyhow that's all I start I 209 00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:38,060 start again in nonfiction was trying to 210 00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:39,950 get short stories published lottery 211 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:41,870 reaction so I actually got 98 212 00:09:47,220 --> 00:09:43,730 projections before my first acceptance 213 00:09:50,530 --> 00:09:47,230 and then moved on through the eighties 214 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:50,540 into trying to write a novel which I 215 00:09:57,940 --> 00:09:56,450 adventure and now I do a lot of excuse 216 00:10:01,570 --> 00:09:57,950 me I do a lot of freelance work and 217 00:10:04,750 --> 00:10:01,580 those writing I've written a movie 218 00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:04,760 tie-in to a forthcoming movie called 219 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:07,160 Castro's Cadillac which is about a group 220 00:10:13,330 --> 00:10:10,010 of middle aged guides who has a plot to 221 00:10:16,390 --> 00:10:13,340 basically rip off Castro's classic car 222 00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:16,400 collection but one of her pti is an 223 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:20,480 ex-cia agent and i also like out but i 224 00:10:25,510 --> 00:10:21,770 would say to answer your question 225 00:10:30,250 --> 00:10:25,520 primarily I weird fiction like horror 226 00:10:32,260 --> 00:10:30,260 based fiction with a mix of surrealism 227 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:32,270 that that's primarily what I do but I 228 00:10:38,830 --> 00:10:34,010 also do a heck of a lot of ghost writing 229 00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:38,840 in in all genres that that's actually my 230 00:10:43,870 --> 00:10:41,180 background as well that's the best I've 231 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:43,880 written three books on golf and never 232 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:48,290 actually played a full game of call ok 233 00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,510 possible yeah every that's not the 234 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:53,360 business it's it's uh it's it's a it's a 235 00:10:57,930 --> 00:10:56,090 crazy one so so so that's a little bit 236 00:11:01,930 --> 00:10:57,940 of your background now you've you've 237 00:11:04,540 --> 00:11:01,940 interviewed some real horror greats in 238 00:11:08,830 --> 00:11:04,550 the in in the genre of horror literature 239 00:11:12,130 --> 00:11:08,840 arm you also in in this 240 00:11:14,050 --> 00:11:12,140 book in blacklight uh you obviously have 241 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:14,060 a a great deal of respect for John keel 242 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:19,610 um did you did you know John keel um I 243 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:23,990 met him very very briefly in 2003 at the 244 00:11:27,970 --> 00:11:26,330 it was the second they have a festival 245 00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:27,980 in Point Pleasant West Virginia the 246 00:11:36,010 --> 00:11:31,160 Mothman festival and it was just held 247 00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:36,020 this past weekend and it started in 2002 248 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:39,020 and keel was there signing a bunch of 249 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:43,130 books and I I knew he was in there they 250 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:44,180 have a place there called the bossman 251 00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:46,310 Museum which is if you're into the whole 252 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:51,680 Mothman deal um it's my employ of course 253 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:53,210 they have props from the mark pellington 254 00:11:58,420 --> 00:11:55,610 movie and everything but anyhow keel was 255 00:12:02,290 --> 00:11:58,430 in there he was coming out after a book 256 00:12:04,330 --> 00:12:02,300 signing and he was being led out and I 257 00:12:06,990 --> 00:12:04,340 thought my god he's probably exhausted 258 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:07,000 cuz he was in his seventies button um 259 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:09,560 but what I didn't know was that his his 260 00:12:13,690 --> 00:12:11,450 eyesight was almost gone he was he was 261 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:13,700 basically blind and when he was coming 262 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:16,700 out by introducing myself said hello to 263 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:22,370 them and we spoke very briefly and then 264 00:12:26,290 --> 00:12:24,530 he went outdoors by the way he was 265 00:12:28,450 --> 00:12:26,300 dressed in a white suit with a black 266 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:28,460 shirt with wraparound shades he was kind 267 00:12:36,190 --> 00:12:33,290 of like the anti man in black he he 268 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,200 really stood out plying plus and they 269 00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:39,200 were dedicating a there is a stainless 270 00:12:43,930 --> 00:12:41,840 steel sculpture of the so-called Mothman 271 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:43,940 entity right across the street from this 272 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:46,730 well right now it's next to the museum 273 00:12:50,860 --> 00:12:48,890 because they moved it and that day they 274 00:12:53,470 --> 00:12:50,870 had dedicated this sculpture and he'll 275 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:53,480 was out there for to be photographed and 276 00:13:00,160 --> 00:12:56,330 give a speech and so yes I did meet him 277 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:00,170 it was very brief um but he has had a 278 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:02,930 huge influence on me mostly in how I 279 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:06,050 approach the material not so much how I 280 00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:07,610 feel about it and write about it because 281 00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:10,390 he was very skeptical but then he also 282 00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:13,340 he also wrote some things where you're 283 00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:15,560 thinking now is he making this up or 284 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:19,160 does he honestly is that he would seem 285 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:21,610 to lapse into like the extra-terrestrial 286 00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:22,700 hypothesis 287 00:13:28,180 --> 00:13:24,620 and then you turn the page and he's 288 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:28,190 saying it is very unlikely that UFOs are 289 00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:31,310 from you know another you know from some 290 00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:34,700 extrasolar planet so he an infant way 291 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:38,150 he's hard to figure but yeah I had 292 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:40,100 massive respect for him because she kind 293 00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:43,490 of had a no BS attitude and say most of 294 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:45,950 the time and he maintained that 295 00:13:51,850 --> 00:13:49,550 journalistic almost a deadpan style and 296 00:13:55,870 --> 00:13:51,860 he had a sense of humor which is it is 297 00:13:57,490 --> 00:13:55,880 very much lacking and ufology yeah I 298 00:14:00,940 --> 00:13:57,500 always kind of got the impression from 299 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:00,950 from his books that he was trying to 300 00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:06,800 keep the journalistic up just the facts 301 00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:09,740 we don't know where but was also at 302 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:14,420 times wrestling with um you know at 303 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:16,730 times thinking well obviously it's an 304 00:14:20,770 --> 00:14:18,650 alien or obviously it's this and then 305 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:20,780 catching himself or changing his mind 306 00:14:25,570 --> 00:14:23,510 and and it's up to me that always added 307 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:25,580 a kind of a real quality to the book 308 00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:28,490 that you know uh there's nothing worse I 309 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:32,300 think in in this genre of exploitation 310 00:14:38,890 --> 00:14:35,290 than opening a book and someone starts 311 00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:38,900 stating things as if they are empirical 312 00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:42,440 facts 100% obvious like they're going to 313 00:14:49,930 --> 00:14:45,560 explain it all to you because I think I 314 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:49,940 know you don't have the answer yeah see 315 00:14:54,490 --> 00:14:51,650 that's the thing that's always always 316 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:54,500 good NAT me ever since God way back in 317 00:14:59,470 --> 00:14:56,930 the in the ancient days of the 70s when 318 00:15:01,420 --> 00:14:59,480 I first read mothman prophecies as much 319 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:01,430 as that book but scared the crap out of 320 00:15:05,830 --> 00:15:03,770 me I realized you know some of these 321 00:15:07,810 --> 00:15:05,840 things in here these things have got to 322 00:15:11,050 --> 00:15:07,820 be subjective experiences if not all of 323 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,060 them you know and this guy he'll die as 324 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:13,760 we told him and what you just said about 325 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:16,690 him really uh was interesting to me that 326 00:15:23,470 --> 00:15:20,330 you killed did not really edit out his 327 00:15:25,450 --> 00:15:23,480 mistakes or his inner conflicts he gave 328 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:25,460 it to you all like you just mentioned he 329 00:15:28,330 --> 00:15:26,810 would say well obviously it's got to be 330 00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:28,340 this and that and then a page later he 331 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:31,670 would say well probably not and which 332 00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:35,690 may sound hinky but he'll actually if 333 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:36,590 you're reading this book 334 00:15:40,630 --> 00:15:38,540 you're seeing his mistakes and then 335 00:15:43,210 --> 00:15:40,640 you're seeing him either apologize from 336 00:15:45,310 --> 00:15:43,220 them or saying you know well I was wrong 337 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:45,320 about that and I'm willing to admit that 338 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:47,350 my select my thoughts can involve 339 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:49,490 especially you know they're dealing with 340 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:51,290 the subject matter no one has the 341 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:54,170 answers and knows who say they do and I 342 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:55,910 probably made that mistake myself a few 343 00:15:59,860 --> 00:15:57,530 times they're either lying to you or 344 00:16:06,460 --> 00:15:59,870 they're just mistaken or there's an ego 345 00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:06,470 problem going on there um let's uh let's 346 00:16:12,910 --> 00:16:09,800 let's jump into the book here um because 347 00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:12,920 there are you mentioned that you talked 348 00:16:17,890 --> 00:16:14,660 about Roswell that always prix up 349 00:16:22,090 --> 00:16:17,900 people's ears um people people love 350 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:22,100 Roswell uh it's the it's the I don't 351 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:24,170 know it's the gone with the wind of 352 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:26,210 ufology at this point I don't know what 353 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:28,430 it is so good good way to play it yeah 354 00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:32,090 yes and not it never will go away it 355 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:37,220 won't go away but but it's it's not 356 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:41,390 going to go away because because if they 357 00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:44,150 it always struck me I mean and you seem 358 00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:47,300 to think that the the government is is 359 00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:50,390 kind of using flying discs as a cover 360 00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:51,830 for something else it always struck me 361 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:54,380 that if if the government wanted this to 362 00:17:01,420 --> 00:16:57,410 go away and so it would've because they 363 00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:01,430 have done such kind of flat footed silly 364 00:17:08,860 --> 00:17:05,020 things particularly that last round of 365 00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:08,870 explanation a few years back um which 366 00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:11,000 would you care to share with everybody 367 00:17:16,510 --> 00:17:14,600 your thoughts on on what went down with 368 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:16,520 r as well since you are not you are not 369 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:20,450 a believer in in aliens crashing into 370 00:17:27,850 --> 00:17:24,470 the desert necessarily right no I'm not 371 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:27,860 um it is just a clearly a little bit up 372 00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:30,650 i pod would never rule out they live 373 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:32,800 almost staggered out the otherwise 374 00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:35,090 somewhere in the vast universe or 375 00:17:40,330 --> 00:17:36,950 multiverse because what a hell of a 376 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:40,340 waste of space isn't but i don't think 377 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:42,710 they've been here I felt and in 378 00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:47,050 regarding Roswell I I have changed over 379 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:49,790 lightly though my opinion from what I 380 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:50,570 wrote in black 381 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:53,450 light backlight I was going with this 382 00:17:58,539 --> 00:17:55,850 theory that that the writer Martin 383 00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:58,549 Channing came up with that possibly 384 00:18:02,919 --> 00:18:00,799 involved biological warfare some sort of 385 00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:02,929 a test to fail to do that a lot of 386 00:18:09,460 --> 00:18:05,720 people actually and the reason I I was 387 00:18:13,389 --> 00:18:09,470 wrong with that was because based on on 388 00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,399 the documentation and the appeal of 389 00:18:18,249 --> 00:18:15,440 cannon and a lot less admit a lot it was 390 00:18:20,289 --> 00:18:18,259 opinion he came across some evidence 391 00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:20,299 that up there were a lot of death and 392 00:18:27,129 --> 00:18:24,799 laws well after in 47 and follow when 393 00:18:30,730 --> 00:18:27,139 seeming like like a lot of at the same 394 00:18:32,619 --> 00:18:30,740 time and he was trying to draw between 395 00:18:34,389 --> 00:18:32,629 that and well what would kill a lot of 396 00:18:37,149 --> 00:18:34,399 people quickly well uh some kind of 397 00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:37,159 microorganism a plague and so that kind 398 00:18:43,509 --> 00:18:40,879 of already came up with that but ffs the 399 00:18:47,259 --> 00:18:43,519 book and and saw more about that I'm 400 00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:47,269 thinking well I bet attested but it just 401 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:50,480 seems like something that dangerous with 402 00:18:55,299 --> 00:18:52,610 the possibility of massive lawsuits 403 00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,309 forever but this present day why would 404 00:18:59,440 --> 00:18:56,480 why would there be that kind of a 405 00:19:02,950 --> 00:18:59,450 risk-taking you know so I'm almost going 406 00:19:05,529 --> 00:19:02,960 back to what have you will all do which 407 00:19:07,299 --> 00:19:05,539 would be most well-known was just calm 408 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:07,309 skeptics people are skeptical than 409 00:19:14,139 --> 00:19:09,769 they're saying you know the goddamn 410 00:19:15,940 --> 00:19:14,149 mobile flight and I'm almost I'm i'm 411 00:19:17,619 --> 00:19:15,950 ninety-nine percent with that i do think 412 00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:17,629 it was a balloon flight because you go 413 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:19,669 back and look at the original reports 414 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:22,850 and some of those photographs even 415 00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,570 though the supposed to debris package 416 00:19:30,879 --> 00:19:29,120 was described as well await it didn't 417 00:19:35,289 --> 00:19:30,889 weigh much like eight or ten pounds and 418 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:35,299 then use the photos of the military 419 00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:36,950 officer it's just a little bit of foil 420 00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:41,120 material and some sticks and stuff I 421 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:43,940 think if I obviously would happen and of 422 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:46,970 course the the cover-up comes where the 423 00:19:52,749 --> 00:19:49,460 government did not want anyone to know 424 00:19:54,850 --> 00:19:52,759 especially the Russians excuse me that 425 00:19:56,649 --> 00:19:54,860 we were sending off this aluminum to 426 00:19:58,869 --> 00:19:56,659 listen for their atomic bomb tests 427 00:20:01,629 --> 00:19:58,879 because that would be an admission that 428 00:20:04,409 --> 00:20:01,639 the United States number one they had 429 00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:04,419 bombs and then 430 00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:06,460 if they were to find out they knew we 431 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:08,200 were listening and they knew we were 432 00:20:13,859 --> 00:20:11,470 afraid and at that time but all people 433 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:13,869 were extremely terrified of nuclear 434 00:20:19,169 --> 00:20:17,049 attacks was two years after World War 435 00:20:21,629 --> 00:20:19,179 Two it ended and I'm thinking that's 436 00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:21,639 well you know anything missing files and 437 00:20:25,769 --> 00:20:24,159 stuff it's all due to that was deeply 438 00:20:28,349 --> 00:20:25,779 deeply classified and what better way to 439 00:20:30,389 --> 00:20:28,359 hide it then to start out with that 440 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:30,399 press release you know that they had 441 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:32,200 recovered a flying disk because that's 442 00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,090 all anyone is ever going to look for and 443 00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:36,159 pretty much that's held in place to this 444 00:20:42,659 --> 00:20:41,049 day um now you'll excuse me if I if I 445 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:42,669 play devil's advocate because I 446 00:20:47,399 --> 00:20:45,129 guarantee there are there are people 447 00:20:50,210 --> 00:20:47,409 listening out there who whose heads are 448 00:20:54,330 --> 00:20:50,220 exploding right now oh I know I know 449 00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:54,340 hopefully they can't find my house um 450 00:21:01,619 --> 00:20:58,080 but but let me start with this one um 451 00:21:04,409 --> 00:21:01,629 one of one of the big issues that I have 452 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:04,419 always had with with the weather with 453 00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:08,070 the simple weather balloon theory is um 454 00:21:15,389 --> 00:21:11,769 ranchers around that airbase frequently 455 00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:15,399 found balloons frequently found weather 456 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:17,320 balloons and return them because there 457 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,049 was a reward for them because yeah half 458 00:21:26,639 --> 00:21:23,200 of how you know what the weather balloon 459 00:21:28,919 --> 00:21:26,649 is telling you is where it landed is in 460 00:21:35,369 --> 00:21:28,929 comparison to where you launched it so 461 00:21:36,930 --> 00:21:35,379 exactly so i'm not sure why this this if 462 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:36,940 it was a weather balloon which would be 463 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:39,100 full of you know weather balloon pieces 464 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:40,570 no one has ever claimed that it was some 465 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:44,369 kind of of you know amazingly different 466 00:21:48,509 --> 00:21:46,570 weather balloon it was not new weather 467 00:21:50,399 --> 00:21:48,519 balloon technology I'm not sure there is 468 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:50,409 new weather balloon technology even 469 00:21:56,849 --> 00:21:53,440 today I'm having one as a few weather 470 00:21:59,249 --> 00:21:56,859 balloons myself why would there be so 471 00:22:01,440 --> 00:21:59,259 much excitement over just another 472 00:22:03,090 --> 00:22:01,450 weather balloon other than the fact that 473 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:03,100 somebody was going to get the five or 474 00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:05,470 ten dollar reward for finding and 475 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:09,190 turning in the relevant information well 476 00:22:13,259 --> 00:22:11,529 because of this one I'm saying 477 00:22:15,989 --> 00:22:13,269 supposedly has the instrumentation 478 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:15,999 package in the microphones the really 479 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:18,250 specialized classified equipment list 480 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:21,160 anything for the Russian a bomb tests if 481 00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,450 if that's indeed what that was that's 482 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:27,520 all I'm saying it and and no one ever 483 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:29,530 reported that they found like the 484 00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:31,210 rancher you never said he found an 485 00:22:36,210 --> 00:22:33,070 instrumentation package although if he 486 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:36,220 had that may have been one instance 487 00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:37,930 where what he was told you know can't 488 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:39,820 have the public knowing that this 489 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:42,010 instrumentation packed it was found 490 00:22:46,110 --> 00:22:44,530 because then it's going to get out that 491 00:22:48,690 --> 00:22:46,120 this was not just a regular water 492 00:22:53,550 --> 00:22:48,700 balloon but again you know that's that's 493 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:53,560 supposition also um we have somebody on 494 00:22:57,390 --> 00:22:55,690 our chat boards and I'd like to announce 495 00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:57,400 to everybody out there listening to 496 00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:01,120 podcasts UFO live the chat room is 497 00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:03,790 working once again on the podcast UFO 498 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:06,340 website podcast UFO calm so come on down 499 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:08,290 and join us and throw in your questions 500 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:11,230 here is a question from the chat boards 501 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:14,290 and uh it's a direction I was going to 502 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:17,050 go anyway and that's Chad who asks why 503 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:19,830 would they fly the material to to write 504 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:23,310 Air Force Base if it was something that 505 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:26,290 the people at the Roswell base should 506 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:30,850 have understood well that is a damn good 507 00:23:38,910 --> 00:23:34,390 question but as far land your standard 508 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:38,920 even um excuse me even that that fact is 509 00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:40,750 up in the air like most different 510 00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:42,760 documentation proving but that stuff is 511 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:46,180 falling the right field I don't know if 512 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:48,730 there is there might be I'm just saying 513 00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:50,500 that there might be if there is and i'm 514 00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:52,030 not sure i've read it and by saying that 515 00:23:57,140 --> 00:23:54,340 I mean the actual get other documents 516 00:24:01,140 --> 00:23:57,150 and say okay with this this was received 517 00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:01,150 right but if it was if it was the actual 518 00:24:06,930 --> 00:24:04,420 a financial package and they knew what 519 00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:06,940 it was yeah why would it be flown there 520 00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,070 well that's a good point and and that's 521 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:11,200 also why stressed i'm only at 522 00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:14,350 ninety-eight percent skeptical cake I'm 523 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:16,390 still leaving the door open a little bit 524 00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:21,850 as even as regards Roswell now now have 525 00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:23,830 you ever run across in looking at 526 00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,420 Roswell another question I'm in throwout 527 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:27,520 it's like I said I know heads are 528 00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:29,890 exploding over Roswell they always are 529 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:31,929 there's there's a cool 530 00:24:36,269 --> 00:24:34,210 I mean it's it's like you know if you 531 00:24:40,379 --> 00:24:36,279 want to pick a fight at any given time 532 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:40,389 anywhere you can do pretty much one of 533 00:24:47,340 --> 00:24:44,110 three or four things you can state a 534 00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:47,350 political opinion you can make fun of 535 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:50,080 the local baseball or football team 536 00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:52,809 which ever is in season or you can sort 537 00:24:57,749 --> 00:24:55,809 of start talking about Roswell uh one of 538 00:25:04,169 --> 00:24:57,759 those is going to get somebody angry at 539 00:25:06,299 --> 00:25:04,179 you so um um oh I'm you know I'm we 540 00:25:07,739 --> 00:25:06,309 might have to explore this more somebody 541 00:25:09,690 --> 00:25:07,749 on the chat room is saying that there is 542 00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:09,700 there was a Freedom of Information Act 543 00:25:14,249 --> 00:25:11,980 document that does say material was fun 544 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:14,259 to write so we might need to look at 545 00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:18,700 that and uh I I sit corrected and and 546 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:20,350 and the other thing that I was going to 547 00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:22,570 mention is have you ever come across if 548 00:25:29,850 --> 00:25:26,100 you dig into the local Roswell papers um 549 00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:29,860 there were disc sightings in the area 550 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:34,769 actual disc sightings in the area but 551 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:38,350 before that storm and before that the 552 00:25:42,389 --> 00:25:40,450 the material was found have you ever run 553 00:25:44,909 --> 00:25:42,399 across any of that there was a the most 554 00:25:50,190 --> 00:25:44,919 famous one is a couple on their porch 555 00:25:51,659 --> 00:25:50,200 who who watched oh yes yeah I am I am 556 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:51,669 aware that there were disc sightings 557 00:25:58,049 --> 00:25:55,110 before the supposed to crash yeah 558 00:26:00,989 --> 00:25:58,059 undoubtedly and yet the other side of 559 00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:00,999 that is that you know look look where 560 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:03,279 Roswell was close to a lot of testing 561 00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:05,080 was going on they were firing v2 Rock 562 00:26:09,930 --> 00:26:07,179 Hudson but of course v2 does not look 563 00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:09,940 like a disc but but anyhow advanced 564 00:26:14,489 --> 00:26:12,159 prototypes of something we're being 565 00:26:17,070 --> 00:26:14,499 tested so that could explain that and on 566 00:26:18,899 --> 00:26:17,080 the other hand it might not but yeah I 567 00:26:22,049 --> 00:26:18,909 am aware that they were definitely 568 00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:22,059 sightings well before the crash get us 569 00:26:28,409 --> 00:26:25,720 fighting for 58 objects that is ok and 570 00:26:31,769 --> 00:26:28,419 and we're not I'm not giving up on 571 00:26:34,830 --> 00:26:31,779 Roswell yeah well we're gonna beat this 572 00:26:37,049 --> 00:26:34,840 horse a little bit longer um what one of 573 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:37,059 one of the things that you say in your 574 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:38,080 book and you've mentioned you know you 575 00:26:41,489 --> 00:26:39,490 were you were kind of thinking that 576 00:26:46,169 --> 00:26:41,499 there was some kind of a bio warfare 577 00:26:50,999 --> 00:26:46,179 project going on um is that the flying 578 00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:51,009 explanation was an attempt to divert any 579 00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:54,049 investigators away from what was 580 00:27:01,659 --> 00:26:56,809 actually going on and get them just on a 581 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:01,669 complete wild goose chase uh my question 582 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:04,730 is given the fact that we are just a 583 00:27:13,499 --> 00:27:06,710 couple years out from from World War two 584 00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:13,509 um we are staring you know in this uh 585 00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:15,860 who's going to blink first contest 586 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:18,830 already with the Soviets and starting 587 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:22,129 everything else up um America although 588 00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:25,370 war-weary I would think still would have 589 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:29,480 had very much that you know cut to quote 590 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:31,970 a cartoon we did it before and we can do 591 00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:36,769 it again um we are the the strong arm of 592 00:27:44,379 --> 00:27:39,710 freedom and democracy and and you know 593 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:44,389 we if we have to we can take it and we 594 00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:46,129 can we can win this and we can fight 595 00:27:50,499 --> 00:27:48,529 this out which is why we were doing 596 00:27:53,019 --> 00:27:50,509 things like saying oh yeah the bomb gets 597 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:53,029 dropped just just get under your desk 598 00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:56,450 kids don't worry about um yeah Irish 599 00:28:02,129 --> 00:27:58,490 call I recall those drills when I was in 600 00:28:04,690 --> 00:28:02,139 kindergarten is it isn't saying that 601 00:28:07,419 --> 00:28:04,700 isn't admitting that there are flying 602 00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:07,429 discs of some sort isn't that all and it 603 00:28:14,820 --> 00:28:11,320 isn't throwing out this kind of alien a 604 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:14,830 BS cover story isn't that almost 605 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:18,470 inviting people to feed into the fear of 606 00:28:24,490 --> 00:28:21,289 maybe this is something we couldn't win 607 00:28:28,269 --> 00:28:24,500 I mean isn't that almost like bringing 608 00:28:32,350 --> 00:28:28,279 up the one enemy that we couldn't just 609 00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,360 take our Yankee can-do spirit against I 610 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:34,399 mean is it isn't it kind of a bad cover 611 00:28:39,249 --> 00:28:35,690 story I guess that's the crux of my 612 00:28:44,769 --> 00:28:39,259 question um yeah I agree and I would 613 00:28:47,470 --> 00:28:44,779 think that I think that shows if that's 614 00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:47,480 in fact what you know if this was a 615 00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:50,809 cover story and seems like it was that 616 00:28:57,129 --> 00:28:54,230 it was sort of a bad idea probably not 617 00:28:59,170 --> 00:28:57,139 very deeply thought about today yeah 618 00:29:02,470 --> 00:28:59,180 everything's talk extremely complicated 619 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:02,480 today and that God what would happen at 620 00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:04,370 that kind of a story were you by Ohio no 621 00:29:09,490 --> 00:29:06,260 away but you're right that almost is a 622 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:09,500 setup for failure because other writers 623 00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:12,410 have have met and that okay let's say 624 00:29:19,150 --> 00:29:16,280 they actually had a craft from somewhere 625 00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:19,160 else in 1947 they would have wanted help 626 00:29:22,780 --> 00:29:21,500 from other countries with this thing 627 00:29:24,610 --> 00:29:22,790 because they would not know what to make 628 00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:24,620 of it I'm not saying what about the 629 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:27,800 Russians for help but it would have been 630 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:30,110 is like almost impossible to keep that 631 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:31,730 secret because they were about hundreds 632 00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:34,010 of people involved and looking at it and 633 00:29:39,730 --> 00:29:37,430 none of that ever leaked so to speak but 634 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:39,740 yeah as far as that cover story let's 635 00:29:43,270 --> 00:29:40,970 call the flying saucer it's either 636 00:29:47,170 --> 00:29:43,280 worked so well that it's now completely 637 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:47,180 annoying horo assistant well actually 638 00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:49,130 it's both I think it probably it was a 639 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:53,030 bad idea to use it as as a cover because 640 00:29:57,670 --> 00:29:55,250 it is attracting attention to a 641 00:29:59,800 --> 00:29:57,680 phenomenon that they don't want any 642 00:30:02,410 --> 00:29:59,810 really don't want to be bothered with at 643 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:02,420 least it seems that way these days even 644 00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:04,280 though you know that you know someone's 645 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:05,630 got to be paying attention to some 646 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:07,130 reports do you know someone it more 647 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:10,970 rather or else woods for well security 648 00:30:17,770 --> 00:30:14,570 is there space kind of things oh yeah i 649 00:30:19,810 --> 00:30:17,780 mean it's it's it's irresponsible to not 650 00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:19,820 have anyone looking at a report of an 651 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:22,310 unknown object in the sky so there there 652 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:24,050 there's definitely someone collecting 653 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:27,110 some type of data even if its local 654 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:29,330 airports um another thing about the 655 00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:32,240 cover story this is i am kind of a 656 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:38,000 pop-culture guy uh I IM War III I look 657 00:30:44,170 --> 00:30:41,690 at things um I am a big proponent of the 658 00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:44,180 theory that the War of the Worlds 659 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:47,720 broadcast for example was not the big 660 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:51,650 panic causing a monstrosity that people 661 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:56,090 have since claimed that uh that was uh I 662 00:30:59,920 --> 00:30:57,770 mean if you dig into that there's a lot 663 00:31:01,690 --> 00:30:59,930 of evidence that that was newspapers 664 00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:01,700 trying to discredit radio who were 665 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:03,260 cutting into their news business for the 666 00:31:09,370 --> 00:31:07,100 first time uh you know I mean heck 667 00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:09,380 newspapers themselves listed war of the 668 00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:12,500 worlds that night is being on the radio 669 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:17,390 and I look at where aliens were in pop 670 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:22,480 culture up until right around 1947 and 671 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:26,090 you have your amazing stories and you're 672 00:31:32,050 --> 00:31:28,730 in your pulp magazines and your your 673 00:31:34,090 --> 00:31:32,060 tales of rocket men and fist fights with 674 00:31:37,210 --> 00:31:34,100 tentacle beings and all kinds of great 675 00:31:39,580 --> 00:31:37,220 stuff like that which I love s Cobra are 676 00:31:43,570 --> 00:31:39,590 some of the special cover art ever seen 677 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:43,580 I exactly but one of the things that has 678 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:49,180 struck me is if you had to go out in 679 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:52,610 1947 America 1946 II let's just take it 680 00:31:59,080 --> 00:31:55,130 right before this got really blew up and 681 00:32:01,570 --> 00:31:59,090 say can you name someone from another 682 00:32:04,770 --> 00:32:01,580 planet can you talk about you can you 683 00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:04,780 tell me give me an example of an alien I 684 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:07,070 don't think most people are going to 685 00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:11,330 come up with a deja Thorin the Princess 686 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:13,940 of Mars from the Barsoom books of Edgar 687 00:32:20,110 --> 00:32:15,290 Rice Burroughs or anything like that I 688 00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:20,120 think by far the most popular alien in 689 00:32:25,930 --> 00:32:23,510 America probably the world was appearing 690 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:25,940 in newspapers every day in strips was on 691 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:29,090 the radio and now and in comic books in 692 00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:31,970 that Superman and here's a guy he didn't 693 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:33,350 come in a flying saucer came in a rocket 694 00:32:39,550 --> 00:32:36,730 ship but he landed he looks like us he's 695 00:32:45,570 --> 00:32:39,560 standing up for for for America 696 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:45,580 everybody loves Superman um would do I 697 00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:48,490 don't know that that we would have 698 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:53,110 necessarily been quite so terrified if 699 00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:56,210 somebody wasn't leading us to be quite 700 00:33:02,860 --> 00:32:58,370 so terrified does that does that make 701 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:02,870 any sense to you yes um I'm glad you 702 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:04,970 nation pop culture because that is that 703 00:33:10,060 --> 00:33:07,730 is another huge it's a topic I think 704 00:33:13,090 --> 00:33:10,070 about constantly about the influence a 705 00:33:15,730 --> 00:33:13,100 pop culture on how people think and you 706 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:15,740 know the to use a Carl Jung word 707 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:18,950 architects and how do you clear affect 708 00:33:23,890 --> 00:33:21,110 us and you just being pretty much 709 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:23,900 explain that late there yeah who would 710 00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:25,730 have been the figure you know even 711 00:33:28,479 --> 00:33:26,529 though 712 00:33:32,769 --> 00:33:28,489 extraterrestrial but a human-looking 713 00:33:35,199 --> 00:33:32,779 person Superman obviously huge and um in 714 00:33:36,699 --> 00:33:35,209 the comics and then I think that the 715 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:36,709 original television show i don't know if 716 00:33:40,449 --> 00:33:38,690 that started in the 50s or balancer that 717 00:33:42,609 --> 00:33:40,459 actually on I'd start over here I think 718 00:33:45,159 --> 00:33:42,619 a look it was the 50s and the tail end 719 00:33:47,349 --> 00:33:45,169 of the radio show and they're meant 720 00:33:49,989 --> 00:33:47,359 there would have been the fleischer 721 00:33:53,469 --> 00:33:49,999 cartoons i believe right around then the 722 00:33:54,819 --> 00:33:53,479 rotoscoped really cool yeah i say were 723 00:33:57,549 --> 00:33:54,829 the guys who created them working 724 00:33:58,839 --> 00:33:57,559 Cleveland where I was born not that that 725 00:34:01,629 --> 00:33:58,849 means anything i just thought I'd throw 726 00:34:04,689 --> 00:34:01,639 that in there but um there there's a 727 00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,699 book by this guy named Ken Hollings 728 00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:06,799 maybe know about it's called welcome to 729 00:34:12,099 --> 00:34:09,349 Mars politics pop culture and weird 730 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:12,109 science in 1950s America and it's the 731 00:34:17,980 --> 00:34:15,169 most complete breakdown of how culture 732 00:34:20,919 --> 00:34:17,990 affects our thoughts there it's not 733 00:34:23,259 --> 00:34:20,929 covered everything from like 50s um you 734 00:34:27,220 --> 00:34:23,269 know our architecture and Frank Lloyd 735 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:27,230 Wright comic strips pulp fiction and and 736 00:34:32,589 --> 00:34:31,129 he shows like an evolution and how it 737 00:34:35,289 --> 00:34:32,599 affects how people think about 738 00:34:36,970 --> 00:34:35,299 paranormal phenomena and UFOs and goes 739 00:34:39,249 --> 00:34:36,980 Tiant exactly what you're saying about 740 00:34:41,919 --> 00:34:39,259 what kind of what would have been in 741 00:34:45,789 --> 00:34:41,929 people's consciousness during the 742 00:34:47,499 --> 00:34:45,799 Roswell of times yeah I have a copy of 743 00:34:50,139 --> 00:34:47,509 that somewhere and I never I have not 744 00:34:53,259 --> 00:34:50,149 read it I believe my wife quote unquote 745 00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:53,269 cleaned up for me I have no idea where 746 00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:55,359 that book as I I need to find it um 747 00:35:00,190 --> 00:34:57,200 because that kind of leads into 748 00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:00,200 something that that um you frequently 749 00:35:12,430 --> 00:35:06,200 here uh people say we see Grey's because 750 00:35:14,529 --> 00:35:12,440 of Close Encounters um we saw yeah we 751 00:35:16,210 --> 00:35:14,539 you know are a community like well but 752 00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:16,220 that was kind of based on what people 753 00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:17,839 rise so there's a lot of arguments are 754 00:35:24,940 --> 00:35:19,880 but but to me what has never quite made 755 00:35:29,499 --> 00:35:24,950 sense is if that is the case um were 756 00:35:33,069 --> 00:35:29,509 people seeing Vulcans in the 70s where 757 00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:33,079 where is a lot of people don't don't 758 00:35:37,390 --> 00:35:35,990 realize how huge in America at least and 759 00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:37,400 I know we're talking to an international 760 00:35:42,220 --> 00:35:40,040 audience um 761 00:35:45,580 --> 00:35:42,230 but a lot of people don't realize how 762 00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:45,590 huge what quote unquote Dalek mania was 763 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:48,380 in the early 60s in Britain when Doctor 764 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:51,050 Who the television show were first on 765 00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:53,570 introduced some of the most alien 766 00:35:58,810 --> 00:35:55,910 looking aliens ever to be on television 767 00:36:01,180 --> 00:35:58,820 at that point or in movies um and and 768 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:01,190 Alex were so huge that I mean they made 769 00:36:03,850 --> 00:36:02,690 to American Doctor Who movies even 770 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:03,860 though the television show had never 771 00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:06,110 been on over here with Peter Cushing and 772 00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:08,030 it was ever so we're so like where were 773 00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:12,470 where are the Z Dalek influenced UFO 774 00:36:17,530 --> 00:36:15,590 reports of the 60s and and things and it 775 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:17,540 there are seems to be a disconnect for 776 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:20,450 to me with with that that the that that 777 00:36:24,910 --> 00:36:22,850 that pop that some of that pop culture 778 00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:24,920 influenced just doesn't quite seem to be 779 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:28,700 there um what do you think I'm thinking 780 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:33,650 that its influence is not a [\h__\h] 781 00:36:39,820 --> 00:36:37,490 specially the collect much as the way 782 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:39,830 it's written about ten Hollings covers 783 00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:42,050 that though I'm but I'm not saying he's 784 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:45,440 he's trying to push this where yes this 785 00:36:48,970 --> 00:36:46,910 explains that because you make a good 786 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:48,980 point about I was just reading about 787 00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:50,810 this like why are there no reports from 788 00:36:57,820 --> 00:36:53,510 the 70s right there was a flat in 1973 789 00:37:00,040 --> 00:36:57,830 and then you know there that's right 790 00:37:02,170 --> 00:37:00,050 before everybody starts reporting 791 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:02,180 abductions and Wyatt wires have never 792 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:05,450 been a single report of you know a spot 793 00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:07,850 looking extraterrestrial an abduction 794 00:37:12,490 --> 00:37:10,640 report yet not one you know well there 795 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:12,500 was it wasn't important and then you're 796 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:14,390 talking about the Daleks and Doctor Who 797 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:19,730 I have or had relatives from England and 798 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:22,210 they first started visiting when I was 799 00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:24,890 that's very young in the 60s they talked 800 00:37:27,130 --> 00:37:26,150 about Doctor Who of course I didn't know 801 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:27,140 what they're talking about because we 802 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:29,210 didn't have it on at least I in 803 00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:31,730 Northeast Ohio until the early age and 804 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:34,160 I'm called the broadcasting right same 805 00:37:43,210 --> 00:37:38,530 in st. Louis okay so I'll use your side 806 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:43,220 um but yeah it's it's making too strong 807 00:37:46,690 --> 00:37:45,170 of a point about the influence of pop 808 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:46,700 culture the influence is definitely 809 00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:49,730 there but it can't be as deep as it has 810 00:37:53,660 --> 00:37:51,620 maybe some of I tried to get us to 811 00:37:57,289 --> 00:37:53,670 believe because yeah well 812 00:37:59,809 --> 00:37:57,299 the dalek report you know the the Brit 813 00:38:06,470 --> 00:37:59,819 the UK land things and stuff like that 814 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:06,480 and even even in a more uh generalized 815 00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:11,490 way um it seems to me that that pop 816 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:17,760 culture tends to actually uh ride ride 817 00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:20,490 the wave more than anything else I mean 818 00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,079 uh you got a definite space brother 819 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:27,119 intergalactic Federation feel from the 820 00:38:34,670 --> 00:38:31,140 contactees well before Star Trek you 821 00:38:36,589 --> 00:38:34,680 know and I said yeah and I've seen Star 822 00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:36,599 Trek blamed for that you know people 823 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:38,640 saying that the aliens are gonna come 824 00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:40,170 and they're saving there but now then 825 00:38:44,329 --> 00:38:42,030 it's like well yeah but you know George 826 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:44,339 Adamski who I will go on the record as 827 00:38:49,220 --> 00:38:46,950 saying I think the guy was was full of 828 00:38:52,609 --> 00:38:49,230 it but he had a George Adamski was 829 00:38:55,069 --> 00:38:52,619 saying this stuff you know uh 15 20 830 00:38:59,960 --> 00:38:55,079 years before and as were other people 831 00:39:04,400 --> 00:38:59,970 and in it in it it seems like a lot of 832 00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,410 times that a a lot of researchers don't 833 00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:07,200 follow a trail all the way back and they 834 00:39:11,870 --> 00:39:09,000 find their explanation and they sit on 835 00:39:15,049 --> 00:39:11,880 it yeah that's that's another that's 836 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:15,059 another huge mistake I found that um you 837 00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,290 can tell by by someone's particular book 838 00:39:23,539 --> 00:39:20,640 hopefully that mine because I'm somebody 839 00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:23,549 who's actually read the literature I'm 840 00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:25,260 not I'm not the same popular literature 841 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:29,369 I name the you know reports from you 842 00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:32,250 know pre-christian times all the way up 843 00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:34,500 to the airship reports in the 1890s and 844 00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:38,099 I'm just saying it it does you well to 845 00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:40,920 know the literature but you nanchang the 846 00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:44,160 danske that tons about a dance in fact I 847 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:46,680 think the very first UFO book I ever 848 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:49,290 happens from my uncle and it was inside 849 00:39:54,799 --> 00:39:50,970 the spaceships it was this hardcover 850 00:39:57,260 --> 00:39:54,809 book which was another pic 1954 851 00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:57,270 something like that and it was all water 852 00:40:02,599 --> 00:39:59,160 stain and my uncle gave to me and I read 853 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:02,609 it and got to take I was probably ten it 854 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:04,290 scared the crap out of me because I had 855 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:06,450 those photographs to know of these he's 856 00:40:11,330 --> 00:40:07,650 black of like photos at the 857 00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:11,340 giant cigar-shaped craft with these oils 858 00:40:15,590 --> 00:40:13,590 coming out in and discs but yeah if the 859 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:15,600 potentially was describing I mean even 860 00:40:21,620 --> 00:40:19,470 the the clothes he was describing these 861 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:21,630 extraterrestrials will here and there 862 00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:23,850 were these science-fictional like 863 00:40:31,580 --> 00:40:27,030 colorful tight-fitting deals with the 864 00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:31,590 silver belts and it's almost as old pop 865 00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:34,830 culture affects it has more effect on 866 00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,660 the fashion of how things are hopping to 867 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:38,880 look not necessarily how we think about 868 00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:40,890 them it's almost like a visual thing 869 00:40:46,730 --> 00:40:43,560 where you're right in saying we're pop 870 00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:46,740 culture seems to ride the wave of what's 871 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:48,900 actually happened not so much setting 872 00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:51,450 ran but hey it's definitely in effect 873 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:54,660 but i'm actually at danske your lady was 874 00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:56,130 talking about the stuff you know well 875 00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:58,410 well for Star Trek and you know space 876 00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:01,800 1999 and all any of those shows I love 877 00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,150 space 1999 yeah it was looking get past 878 00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,480 the premise it was pretty well done show 879 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:12,240 was you know i will give well here's a 880 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:14,610 we're just gonna take a sci-fi segue 881 00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:16,650 here for a second folks Oh Scylla I I 882 00:41:22,540 --> 00:41:19,560 recently started rewatching space 1999 883 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:22,550 because it showed up on hulu and um uh 884 00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:27,450 I'm a huge fan of another live action 885 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:29,640 group the same show the same group did 886 00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,010 called UFO which if you've never seen 887 00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:34,560 UFO you should check it out I have seen 888 00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:37,020 it got it's so colorful it's so awesome 889 00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,420 yes evidently if you work on the moon 890 00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:41,760 you have to wear a pink wig which is 891 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:47,400 good to know um but but I even in space 892 00:41:53,180 --> 00:41:49,770 1999 I I noticed which I never picked 893 00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:53,190 out as a kid um that even in that there 894 00:41:58,850 --> 00:41:55,620 are several episodes where they just 895 00:42:02,750 --> 00:41:58,860 flat out say it makes no sense for us to 896 00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:02,760 be alive for this to event this is and 897 00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:05,190 and so they do throw that out there they 898 00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:07,740 do admit but that the the premise is 899 00:42:13,790 --> 00:42:10,950 completely insane yeah you know what I 900 00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:13,800 had forgotten that aspect of thing you 901 00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:16,800 mention it with and if I can call right 902 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:18,240 the way they mention it it's almost a 903 00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,490 kind of rum bucket 904 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:23,440 doubt of what level of reality they're 905 00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:25,510 experiencing like yeah how could this is 906 00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:27,430 the move I'll people tap it and you know 907 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:29,920 how even if it did break away how can 908 00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:31,660 you travel so fast and enter other solar 909 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:33,460 systems during their lifetimes and they 910 00:42:37,830 --> 00:42:35,650 didn't acknowledge it you're right yeah 911 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:37,840 cuz i was surprised i have that you know 912 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:40,930 when it popped up a while ago I just you 913 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:42,130 know I was like I don't think I've seen 914 00:42:48,210 --> 00:42:45,550 this since I was about 11 or 12 years 915 00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:48,220 old and darn it I'm gonna I'm gonna 916 00:42:53,850 --> 00:42:51,280 watch it and it is awesome so if 917 00:42:57,630 --> 00:42:53,860 everybody out there if you haven't ever 918 00:43:03,750 --> 00:42:57,640 caught space 1999 it's uh it's a good 919 00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:03,760 one um if you like really dry no action 920 00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:08,020 british science fiction that's cool 921 00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:09,760 that's far more for the intellectual 922 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:13,360 cloud yeah um and and then UFO volatile 923 00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:15,730 which didn't get a lot of us airplay and 924 00:43:21,930 --> 00:43:18,520 you can find on things like Hulu and 925 00:43:24,859 --> 00:43:21,940 Netflix um UFO is actually a story about 926 00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:24,869 a mere well not america the world's 927 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:29,380 secret war against aliens um as was the 928 00:43:34,650 --> 00:43:31,290 invaders which came a little bit earlier 929 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:34,660 in America invaders oh that's kereta 930 00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:38,170 sloppy joes out hey let me tell you uh 931 00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:41,020 you know I haven't seen as much of the 932 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:44,140 invaders as i would like to uh i did get 933 00:43:47,849 --> 00:43:46,210 to see a big chunk of it because here in 934 00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:47,859 st. Louis at one point are our PBS 935 00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:51,640 station was running it and what was was 936 00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:53,740 was it their little finger wouldn't Bend 937 00:43:58,170 --> 00:43:55,600 because it was fake that was the 938 00:44:00,180 --> 00:43:58,180 difference between us in the aliens yeah 939 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:00,190 it was like that that was an element a 940 00:44:04,170 --> 00:44:02,530 show that you know when you see when 941 00:44:06,090 --> 00:44:04,180 you're really little it scared you but 942 00:44:07,830 --> 00:44:06,100 now you're like what the hell like why 943 00:44:10,349 --> 00:44:07,840 would that matter but you're right it 944 00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:10,359 would it was an element of yeah once it 945 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:11,980 was and I think it was the little finger 946 00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,450 and it's yes absolutely absurd but the 947 00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:18,880 rest of the show I mean now I don't know 948 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:19,990 if it would hold up now I haven't 949 00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,230 watched reruns but for the time that he 950 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:25,119 came out I mean I was dripping with 951 00:44:29,099 --> 00:44:27,250 which paranoia just like you know other 952 00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:29,109 limb this is another paranoia inducing 953 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:32,070 show more more on a monster and but 954 00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:35,410 invaders was was pretty well done 955 00:44:40,789 --> 00:44:37,569 but but it's it's again it's it's well 956 00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:40,799 after it was in the 60s I think it was 957 00:44:45,630 --> 00:44:42,940 started in black and white and made the 958 00:44:47,819 --> 00:44:45,640 jump to color uh yeah that's right yeah 959 00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:47,829 um Quinn Martin production so you know 960 00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:49,720 it had I love a good Quinn Martin 961 00:44:53,250 --> 00:44:52,089 production um and you know it's a Quinn 962 00:44:57,690 --> 00:44:53,260 Martin production because they tell you 963 00:45:01,920 --> 00:44:57,700 often yes they always did I market at 964 00:45:05,609 --> 00:45:01,930 stock in our like the solar system yet 965 00:45:11,279 --> 00:45:05,619 but uh uh that that seems to kind of to 966 00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:11,289 me be the the outgrowth of the paranora 967 00:45:17,730 --> 00:45:15,880 Bob paranormal paranoia that started you 968 00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,740 know in the 40s and 50s and you see it 969 00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,599 in a couple movies and the 50s you get 970 00:45:24,750 --> 00:45:22,079 the earth bursts of flying saucers um 971 00:45:27,029 --> 00:45:24,760 but with Ray Harryhausen special effects 972 00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:27,039 and things like that but but before that 973 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:29,380 I don't know that there was a huge 974 00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:33,250 amount of terror of aliens um are you by 975 00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:37,230 any chance a listener to old radio shows 976 00:45:45,420 --> 00:45:40,569 um whenever I get the chance which isn't 977 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:45,430 often but I'm very fond of them I don't 978 00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:46,930 want to go too far into it but yeah 979 00:45:51,269 --> 00:45:48,609 there's a there was a way you show that 980 00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:51,279 it may have inspired the TV series 981 00:45:56,220 --> 00:45:54,400 called one step beyond which was an old 982 00:45:57,809 --> 00:45:56,230 black-and-white show it was that kind of 983 00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:57,819 like it was actually a Stepford show 984 00:46:03,480 --> 00:45:59,920 yeah yeah you know you know about it 985 00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:03,490 there okay and I have listened to 986 00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:08,079 recordings of there were not what they 987 00:46:16,349 --> 00:46:12,640 were doing like adaptations of HP 988 00:46:19,410 --> 00:46:16,359 Lovecraft stories algernon blackwood 989 00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:19,420 look the willows a very good weird 990 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:22,900 fiction story about elemental spirits I 991 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:24,730 just can't think of the names of the 992 00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:26,890 damn shows but I do listen once in a 993 00:46:31,049 --> 00:46:28,480 while because it's the stuff all in 994 00:46:32,549 --> 00:46:31,059 place on the Internet yeah if if if you 995 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:32,559 get a chance or if anybody out there 996 00:46:42,029 --> 00:46:37,210 gets a chance to listen to X minus one 997 00:46:44,339 --> 00:46:42,039 and uh before that what was the name of 998 00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:44,349 the show it'll come to me eventually um 999 00:46:49,260 --> 00:46:47,440 they're there to radio shows that were 1000 00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:49,270 both done in the 50s 1001 00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:52,510 one is basically a reworking of the 1002 00:46:58,140 --> 00:46:54,550 earlier one but it's an anthology radio 1003 00:47:01,470 --> 00:46:58,150 series from period magazine stories uh 1004 00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:01,480 usually galaxy and and I'm I'm often 1005 00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:07,180 struck by how in those stories uh when 1006 00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:10,750 there are aliens we're already we being 1007 00:47:17,490 --> 00:47:12,430 the air things a lot of times are 1008 00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:17,500 already the bad guys um even that early 1009 00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:21,430 uh because they do that I mean they do 1010 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:23,500 it at adaptation of Ray Bradbury's 1011 00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:26,050 Martian Chronicles for one and we do not 1012 00:47:31,410 --> 00:47:28,150 come off well in the Martian Chronicles 1013 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:31,420 cook know if you talk about paranoia I 1014 00:47:36,090 --> 00:47:34,210 despite you know blackberries poetic 1015 00:47:38,250 --> 00:47:36,100 gentleness reputation there are some 1016 00:47:42,690 --> 00:47:38,260 nasty stuff in that book I mean 1017 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:42,700 fantastic list yeah it's horrific um but 1018 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:45,850 but yeah so if anybody gets a chance to 1019 00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:49,930 check out X minus 1 and man the other 1020 00:47:55,890 --> 00:47:53,040 one it's boy I should know this but uh 1021 00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:55,900 it's a it's a great survey of kind of 1022 00:48:01,800 --> 00:47:57,760 what was going on and when you listen to 1023 00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:01,810 that it's really surprising what was in 1024 00:48:11,070 --> 00:48:07,750 the science fiction at the time um as 1025 00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:11,080 far as what we thought of technology 1026 00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:13,030 Dimension X that was the earlier version 1027 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:17,280 of it um what what was what was uh 1028 00:48:22,530 --> 00:48:20,170 accepted um there are huge amount of 1029 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:22,540 rockets you know that there it's always 1030 00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:25,930 struck me how few flying saucers quote 1031 00:48:32,490 --> 00:48:28,440 unquote there were in science fiction 1032 00:48:34,740 --> 00:48:32,500 for so many years right where most of 1033 00:48:37,710 --> 00:48:34,750 Mara are the classic you know pointy 1034 00:48:40,770 --> 00:48:37,720 cone rockets with the fans oh do not see 1035 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:40,780 a lot of discs yeah i mean the shinier 1036 00:48:47,610 --> 00:48:43,450 is a better prefer a rocket right yeah 1037 00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:47,620 of course um is powerful ooh look man 1038 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:50,680 yes chrome i think when i have a 1039 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:52,690 spaceship quote it's gonna be chrome 1040 00:49:00,060 --> 00:48:56,610 this could be chrome or nickel plated I 1041 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:00,070 chrome is the way to ride like yes but 1042 00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:03,010 but uh you know we when you go 1043 00:49:09,450 --> 00:49:05,620 back to uh Buck Rogers there's a good 1044 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:09,460 one Flash Gordon um uh man who were 1045 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:14,610 during rocket exactly and they were huge 1046 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:16,810 influences on science fiction i think 1047 00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:18,250 sometimes and I you know we've been 1048 00:49:22,170 --> 00:49:20,110 talking about there's a mistake of going 1049 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:22,180 back to saying well you know this is 1050 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:24,010 what so-and-so is writing about you know 1051 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:27,970 the shaver mysteries was so endorsing 1052 00:49:34,110 --> 00:49:30,850 but how many people were really reading 1053 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:34,120 those as opposed to Buck Rogers in Flash 1054 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:37,530 Gordon there in your newspaper every day 1055 00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:40,930 you know um yeah they've got movie 1056 00:49:45,570 --> 00:49:43,870 series like to again yeah but the visual 1057 00:49:48,030 --> 00:49:45,580 stuff is always going to trump you know 1058 00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:48,040 people reading books for you know for 1059 00:49:51,450 --> 00:49:50,080 good or ill but back then yeah most 1060 00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:51,460 people they're they're not any thinking 1061 00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:54,160 of you know shaver mysteries and the 1062 00:49:59,160 --> 00:49:57,370 Darrow's enough underground stuff and 1063 00:50:03,120 --> 00:49:59,170 advanced either he'd be watching buck 1064 00:50:05,610 --> 00:50:03,130 rogers and Commander Cody right and and 1065 00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:05,620 those guys all had rocket ships you know 1066 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:09,280 yes all had rocket ships I'm i wonder 1067 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:12,490 what the first flying saucer in in media 1068 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:17,170 really was um you know the day the earth 1069 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:23,650 stood still dirt had a saw right yes 1070 00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:26,890 yeah and it was uh trying to think was 1071 00:50:33,260 --> 00:50:29,920 it it wasn't really a pesky shaped 1072 00:50:36,660 --> 00:50:33,270 saucer with that with that couple of pop 1073 00:50:38,940 --> 00:50:36,670 but he kind of had beveled edges and I'm 1074 00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:38,950 talking about there stood still and then 1075 00:50:43,290 --> 00:50:41,710 there was earth vs. the flying saucers 1076 00:50:45,810 --> 00:50:43,300 were one of the sauce hits the 1077 00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:45,820 Washington Monument definitely that but 1078 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:47,350 that's dead so i think i want to say 1079 00:50:54,420 --> 00:50:51,610 that's 55 57 something like that oh yeah 1080 00:50:57,390 --> 00:50:54,430 you know yeah cuz thats Harry how's it 1081 00:50:59,010 --> 00:50:57,400 fit through yeah I know that day the 1082 00:51:01,040 --> 00:50:59,020 earth stood still actually I know as 1083 00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:01,050 before I was born was like 51 or 52 1084 00:51:07,350 --> 00:51:05,200 right and then directed by Robert why 1085 00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:07,360 should one direct the haunting in like 1086 00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:10,480 62 and and it's actually based on a 1087 00:51:15,690 --> 00:51:12,040 short story called farewell to the 1088 00:51:16,829 --> 00:51:15,700 master arm and yes and in that story 1089 00:51:24,749 --> 00:51:16,839 it's 1090 00:51:26,489 --> 00:51:24,759 shaped craft which which has struck me I 1091 00:51:29,609 --> 00:51:26,499 think when we had forums i wrote about 1092 00:51:30,769 --> 00:51:29,619 that on the forums that what well here 1093 00:51:33,630 --> 00:51:30,779 you know here's something interesting 1094 00:51:39,569 --> 00:51:33,640 it's it's not a rocket but it's still 1095 00:51:45,749 --> 00:51:39,579 not a flying saucer immediate mitigation 1096 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:45,759 there but but then by after its really 1097 00:51:51,749 --> 00:51:50,170 it's Kenneth Arnold um it's it's it's 1098 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:51,759 Roswell there were a bunch of other 1099 00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:53,410 little things happening at the time 1100 00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:55,089 because of course can't Kenneth Arnold 1101 00:52:03,349 --> 00:51:59,440 didn't see flying saucers he saw things 1102 00:52:07,529 --> 00:52:03,359 that move like that he saw boomerangs uh 1103 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:07,539 um yeah and he did the drawings of them 1104 00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:09,729 and get that that one two step we mark 1105 00:52:14,700 --> 00:52:12,359 about you know skipping like stones and 1106 00:52:17,969 --> 00:52:14,710 the guy that got blown out of proportion 1107 00:52:20,339 --> 00:52:17,979 and look at the effect that had yeah and 1108 00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:20,349 and then but and then that's when the 1109 00:52:27,509 --> 00:52:24,640 disks came but but people were already 1110 00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:27,519 seeing you know some discs right around 1111 00:52:31,829 --> 00:52:29,529 then and have you ever run across any 1112 00:52:37,289 --> 00:52:31,839 reference to the term flying saucer 1113 00:52:39,569 --> 00:52:37,299 actually predating kenneth arnold and i 1114 00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,579 don't think so yeah there is the 1115 00:52:44,609 --> 00:52:41,440 earliest mention i know and this is 1116 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:44,619 probably after it's really close to 1117 00:52:49,819 --> 00:52:46,450 rasterize whether there's a novel this 1118 00:52:52,829 --> 00:52:49,829 just called the flying saucer by bernard 1119 00:52:54,569 --> 00:52:52,839 much what's that I'll never get its last 1120 00:53:00,829 --> 00:52:54,579 name right but his first names Bernard 1121 00:53:03,569 --> 00:53:00,839 and it was basically a novel about using 1122 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:03,579 UFO phenomenon and what's causing it is 1123 00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:06,569 called flying saucers as a cover-up for 1124 00:53:12,450 --> 00:53:09,910 for a government conspiracy and that's 1125 00:53:16,529 --> 00:53:12,460 often been related as probably the first 1126 00:53:20,819 --> 00:53:16,539 appearance of our use of flying saucer 1127 00:53:23,370 --> 00:53:20,829 theme in a fictional in a bit nom but as 1128 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:23,380 far as like the term flying sauce to 1129 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:26,410 being used for Arnold I personally I 1130 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:28,930 haven't run across any anything but 1131 00:53:32,730 --> 00:53:30,550 there are reports 1132 00:53:34,830 --> 00:53:32,740 some of them ancient of course they 1133 00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:34,840 weren't saying flying saucer they would 1134 00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:38,400 say of egg-shaped egg shaped objects 1135 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:41,880 disc-shaped objects she'll and not the 1136 00:53:47,310 --> 00:53:45,370 shield's exactly but but never the words 1137 00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:47,320 flying saucer that that I've run across 1138 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:50,110 I I do believe that it was used in 1139 00:54:01,170 --> 00:53:55,210 newspapers um at one point possibly in 1140 00:54:04,110 --> 00:54:01,180 England before um before the art Kenneth 1141 00:54:07,770 --> 00:54:04,120 Arnold study if anybody knows if anybody 1142 00:54:10,650 --> 00:54:07,780 could jump on a podcast UFO com tryna 1143 00:54:12,660 --> 00:54:10,660 throw that in the chat room um there 1144 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:12,670 there are definitely people in the chat 1145 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:14,650 room so like I said it was it's been 1146 00:54:19,230 --> 00:54:18,010 down but it's back up again we will take 1147 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:19,240 questions through here and we're gonna 1148 00:54:22,380 --> 00:54:20,410 we're going to talk about government 1149 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:22,390 here in a second um i would like to 1150 00:54:26,910 --> 00:54:24,730 point out because it has been pointed 1151 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:26,920 out to a chat room user by the name of 1152 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:31,210 Martin Willis yeah uh I should've known 1153 00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:35,650 that uh yeah uh in in the next couple in 1154 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:37,630 a few weeks Michael Shermer is going to 1155 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:42,130 be a guest on podcast UFO so uh even 1156 00:54:46,890 --> 00:54:44,530 even if people get mad at you today bill 1157 00:54:49,350 --> 00:54:46,900 for being a some kind of disinformation 1158 00:54:51,930 --> 00:54:49,360 to bunker they're gonna all forget it 1159 00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:51,940 when open when he comes and makes people 1160 00:55:00,420 --> 00:54:54,640 mad well that's good to know there's 1161 00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:00,430 some back up there but um but back to 1162 00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:02,110 the government we were starting to kind 1163 00:55:05,130 --> 00:55:03,520 of move back towards the government in 1164 00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:05,140 the government conspiracy theory I'm 1165 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:08,470 very early in your book I want to say 1166 00:55:16,770 --> 00:55:11,490 it's actually possibly the introduction 1167 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:16,780 you you say that you believe it's a fact 1168 00:55:25,230 --> 00:55:20,890 um in the format fact colon that that 1169 00:55:29,580 --> 00:55:25,240 the government that governments do not 1170 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:29,590 know what's behind uh the the UFO 1171 00:55:37,140 --> 00:55:34,410 phenomena um and I think a lot of people 1172 00:55:38,970 --> 00:55:37,150 when reading your book it were if they 1173 00:55:41,310 --> 00:55:38,980 read the introduction right there 1174 00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:41,320 they're gonna be like what this what 1175 00:55:44,339 --> 00:55:43,240 because I there's a lot of people that 1176 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:44,349 hold hold 1177 00:55:49,259 --> 00:55:46,450 truck with with the government knowing 1178 00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:49,269 more than we do if not knowing the whole 1179 00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:53,380 story um what is your thought why do you 1180 00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:55,599 believe that that the government's do 1181 00:56:01,170 --> 00:55:57,970 not know what's going on or at least 1182 00:56:02,219 --> 00:56:01,180 more than us if that's the truth as well 1183 00:56:04,859 --> 00:56:02,229 I don't want to put words in your mouth 1184 00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:04,869 and why don't you believe that 1185 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:08,529 governments can keep a secret okay well 1186 00:56:15,059 --> 00:56:11,410 the reason I wrote that is I think it is 1187 00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,069 a fact that number one if anybody has 1188 00:56:20,190 --> 00:56:17,680 data you know just raw data on 1189 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:20,200 phenomenon it's it's governments and I 1190 00:56:24,359 --> 00:56:22,450 think they have crap loads of it but I 1191 00:56:25,890 --> 00:56:24,369 don't think they know what it is what it 1192 00:56:28,469 --> 00:56:25,900 represents and that's why i said that 1193 00:56:31,170 --> 00:56:28,479 that they they don't really know the 1194 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:31,180 source of these things the the ones that 1195 00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:33,970 let's say if there really are any you 1196 00:56:39,779 --> 00:56:36,910 know authentic unknowns and by that you 1197 00:56:42,890 --> 00:56:39,789 know UFO does mean unidentified flying 1198 00:56:45,660 --> 00:56:42,900 object not necessarily extraterrestrial 1199 00:56:48,839 --> 00:56:45,670 but that's why i said that that i don't 1200 00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:48,849 think they they do know and that was 1201 00:56:54,809 --> 00:56:51,609 that could be party you know another 1202 00:56:57,630 --> 00:56:54,819 cover that they don't want the public to 1203 00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:57,640 know because it is admitting some kind 1204 00:57:00,539 --> 00:56:59,440 of impotence like well if you don't know 1205 00:57:02,609 --> 00:57:00,549 what these things are hopping you 1206 00:57:04,709 --> 00:57:02,619 protect us against terrorists and and 1207 00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:04,719 whoever else and these days of course 1208 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:07,390 everything comes back to terrorism no 1209 00:57:12,809 --> 00:57:09,729 matter what but that is why I looked at 1210 00:57:14,749 --> 00:57:12,819 I think they have a lot of data but they 1211 00:57:17,279 --> 00:57:14,759 don't really know what to do with it and 1212 00:57:21,479 --> 00:57:17,289 it's been that way for a long time you 1213 00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:21,489 know my opinion of course um now I've 1214 00:57:26,430 --> 00:57:23,140 heard other people kind of say that that 1215 00:57:28,349 --> 00:57:26,440 did it say I it would cause this panic 1216 00:57:31,019 --> 00:57:28,359 and you know the government can't appear 1217 00:57:33,779 --> 00:57:31,029 weak in the face of of it and such but 1218 00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:33,789 um it seems to me that the government 1219 00:57:40,109 --> 00:57:35,950 deals with a lot of things it doesn't 1220 00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:40,119 know the answer to necessarily um we 1221 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:42,700 don't know what we're gonna do about uh 1222 00:57:48,359 --> 00:57:46,450 you know fossil fuels we don't you don't 1223 00:57:51,150 --> 00:57:48,369 know what we're going to do about the 1224 00:57:53,309 --> 00:57:51,160 debt we did not there's a lot of air 1225 00:57:57,150 --> 00:57:53,319 look there are a lot of things that 1226 00:57:58,050 --> 00:57:57,160 matter a hell of a lot more than UFOs I 1227 00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:58,060 even have a chapter 1228 00:58:02,250 --> 00:57:59,920 the last chapter in my book is called so 1229 00:58:04,350 --> 00:58:02,260 what well you know what is this stuff 1230 00:58:06,420 --> 00:58:04,360 has absolutely no relevance and it's 1231 00:58:08,660 --> 00:58:06,430 completely incidental it could still be 1232 00:58:10,830 --> 00:58:08,670 real but be incidental to our lives 1233 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:10,840 things like you know fossil fuel 1234 00:58:16,290 --> 00:58:13,930 programs and and the government has I'm 1235 00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:16,300 not something that constantly stopping 1236 00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:17,680 the head of the government there are a 1237 00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:19,750 lot of things they do piss me off a lot 1238 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:21,190 of things they do I think they're great 1239 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:24,490 but like yet what about there are things 1240 00:58:29,940 --> 00:58:27,970 that are also treated hazily like you 1241 00:58:35,130 --> 00:58:29,950 know commerce is more important than 1242 00:58:36,510 --> 00:58:35,140 solving fossil fuel problems always so 1243 00:58:39,530 --> 00:58:36,520 you know they don't always know they're 1244 00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:39,540 doing and they are human beings and 1245 00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:42,300 that's not their subject to fear as well 1246 00:58:46,890 --> 00:58:45,310 but I think as far as like the UFO 1247 00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:46,900 phenomenon goes someone's gotta be 1248 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:48,640 paying attention to reports but I think 1249 00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:50,290 they're more these days there is more 1250 00:58:55,170 --> 00:58:52,630 annoying type than anything and now with 1251 00:58:59,970 --> 00:58:55,180 a drone technology that's really frying 1252 00:59:07,950 --> 00:58:59,980 a lot of crap in the air literally yeah 1253 00:59:12,450 --> 00:59:07,960 um drones I love a good drone um I don't 1254 00:59:15,390 --> 00:59:12,460 we all uh you know so many of them are 1255 00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:15,400 toys and they're definitely you know 1256 00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:17,910 there's definitely been hoaxes 1257 00:59:26,420 --> 00:59:21,580 purposeful hoaxes created with drones we 1258 00:59:28,890 --> 00:59:26,430 did a new story years ago about a museum 1259 00:59:32,580 --> 00:59:28,900 creating a hoax with a drone outside of 1260 00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:32,590 a baseball game in Canada to draw 1261 00:59:37,020 --> 00:59:34,750 attention to one of their exhibits so 1262 00:59:38,820 --> 00:59:37,030 you know i have i have heard of that one 1263 00:59:41,970 --> 00:59:38,830 wasn't there there's video footage that 1264 00:59:44,550 --> 00:59:41,980 oh yeah yeah yeah um you know so there's 1265 00:59:48,330 --> 00:59:44,560 there's definitely things like that that 1266 00:59:50,490 --> 00:59:48,340 are going to happen um again I'm gonna 1267 00:59:52,770 --> 00:59:50,500 point out that something I said right at 1268 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:52,780 the top of the broadcast that that all 1269 00:59:57,900 --> 00:59:55,330 of you who want to look for these things 1270 01:00:01,260 --> 00:59:57,910 who want to to see something in the sky 1271 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:01,270 um you know such a good place to start 1272 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:02,770 is by knowing what's supposed to be 1273 01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:07,330 there so absolutely go outside get get 1274 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:11,110 started and uh like I said I think I 1275 01:00:13,980 --> 01:00:11,890 might have even mentioned 1276 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:13,990 you know get a pair of astronomy 1277 01:00:17,789 --> 01:00:15,970 binoculars binoculars made for astronomy 1278 01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:17,799 you can get them for fairly chill at 1279 01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:19,630 cheaper than a telescope they're a lot 1280 01:00:23,970 --> 01:00:22,210 easier to use you'd be surprised that 1281 01:00:26,819 --> 01:00:23,980 what you could see with a fifty dollar 1282 01:00:29,849 --> 01:00:26,829 pair of astronomy binoculars even in the 1283 01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:29,859 city um and just get familiar with 1284 01:00:36,990 --> 01:00:32,430 everything that that's out there because 1285 01:00:40,349 --> 01:00:37,000 when it's all said and done um drunk you 1286 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:40,359 know drone ninety-nine percent of what 1287 01:00:46,670 --> 01:00:42,130 we're calling drones are toys first of 1288 01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:46,680 all uh and they're not really that 1289 01:00:52,259 --> 01:00:50,319 except yeah when you see them that you 1290 01:00:54,930 --> 01:00:52,269 know on the harsh daylight like well 1291 01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:54,940 this is a configuration of plastic and 1292 01:01:01,349 --> 01:00:57,250 you know micro processors and some 1293 01:01:02,970 --> 01:01:01,359 lights some propellers yeah but but but 1294 01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:02,980 even even if you see them in the dark 1295 01:01:06,900 --> 01:01:04,630 even if you see people if you are 1296 01:01:09,210 --> 01:01:06,910 familiar with what's around you you can 1297 01:01:11,009 --> 01:01:09,220 pick out things like now it's a lot 1298 01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,019 harder to do on videotape because you 1299 01:01:16,319 --> 01:01:13,359 don't are on video because you don't you 1300 01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:16,329 you get the the flash effect of a light 1301 01:01:21,499 --> 01:01:18,970 as opposed to what your eyes would have 1302 01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:21,509 told you at the time oh sure yeah 1303 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:23,950 distortions yes but it's it's pretty 1304 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:26,170 easy to stand on the ground and go you 1305 01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:28,410 know that thing's not that high up that 1306 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:31,119 therefore that things really not that 1307 01:01:39,049 --> 01:01:35,170 big um they do makes a lot of them do 1308 01:01:43,289 --> 01:01:39,059 make some noise you know yeah but um 1309 01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:43,299 yeah droid and I'm a big fan of drugs I 1310 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:46,529 want I want real drones in America but 1311 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:49,450 but but but not these toys and and I'm 1312 01:01:55,140 --> 01:01:51,250 surprised I haven't caused more of an 1313 01:01:56,940 --> 01:01:55,150 issue then then they have I don't I 1314 01:01:59,730 --> 01:01:56,950 think that yes yet to come especially 1315 01:02:01,940 --> 01:01:59,740 with them like Amazon proposing this 1316 01:02:04,410 --> 01:02:01,950 delivery system like what that is the 1317 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:04,420 stupidest idea I think if you want to 1318 01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:07,210 cause havoc get drones delivering [\h__\h] 1319 01:02:16,499 --> 01:02:11,920 to people that'll do it oh you know I 1320 01:02:23,220 --> 01:02:16,509 don't know um I don't know hear hear 1321 01:02:25,380 --> 01:02:23,230 back to to history um helicopters were a 1322 01:02:31,140 --> 01:02:25,390 fairly new thing 1323 01:02:33,660 --> 01:02:31,150 uh in the 40s they were not widely anime 1324 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:33,670 I thought the first one even existed 1325 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:35,470 until it was like the Second World War 1326 01:02:40,590 --> 01:02:37,930 was it not right and and we did not use 1327 01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:40,600 them you know widely in the way it was 1328 01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:42,790 Korea where we started widely using 1329 01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:46,710 helicopters are military so I you know 1330 01:02:53,610 --> 01:02:50,310 where where the where the hysterical 1331 01:02:55,530 --> 01:02:53,620 helicopter sightings yeah well good 1332 01:02:57,690 --> 01:02:55,540 point there the point there i mean biet 1333 01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:57,700 beyond the you know that's a whole 1334 01:03:01,700 --> 01:02:59,680 nother shell-like of jim chief black 1335 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:01,710 helicopters over America to you but uh 1336 01:03:08,430 --> 01:03:05,170 as far as sure if you speaking in terms 1337 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:08,440 of groans raising havoc I don't think 1338 01:03:13,590 --> 01:03:10,570 that started and it just it worries me 1339 01:03:16,890 --> 01:03:13,600 personally that you know of course they 1340 01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:16,900 would have to fly below a certain you 1341 01:03:22,580 --> 01:03:19,180 know threshold to avoid commercial 1342 01:03:26,190 --> 01:03:22,590 aircraft but then there's also excuse me 1343 01:03:28,410 --> 01:03:26,200 log FAA laws against flying certain 1344 01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:28,420 aircraft too low and I'm positive 1345 01:03:33,180 --> 01:03:30,400 because I've redness that they're trying 1346 01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:33,190 to work out legislation for you know 1347 01:03:38,550 --> 01:03:36,130 commercial drone usage oh yeah they 1348 01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:38,560 definitely because there's there are 1349 01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:42,400 some really legitimate great uses for 1350 01:03:47,610 --> 01:03:45,100 real drones if you also if you're a 1351 01:03:50,730 --> 01:03:47,620 traitor well but like if you're a cattle 1352 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:50,740 rancher right and you haven't you have a 1353 01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:53,290 drone that you can you can put up in the 1354 01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:56,650 air it has a sensor and say follow the 1355 01:04:02,430 --> 01:04:00,160 fence until there's no fence and tell me 1356 01:04:04,730 --> 01:04:02,440 what's happening you don't have to have 1357 01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:04,740 people writing your fences anymore oh 1358 01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:07,660 yeah that that's a horse per piece for 1359 01:04:16,110 --> 01:04:10,240 you know you know uh you you could have 1360 01:04:19,050 --> 01:04:16,120 a drone um fly through relatively long 1361 01:04:20,820 --> 01:04:19,060 stretches of powerline and monitor you 1362 01:04:23,820 --> 01:04:20,830 know what's going through the power 1363 01:04:26,130 --> 01:04:23,830 lines read their am fields very easily 1364 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:26,140 you could you can I mean there's there's 1365 01:04:32,550 --> 01:04:29,050 there's a lot of really great legitimate 1366 01:04:34,850 --> 01:04:32,560 uses for drones that it could save a lot 1367 01:04:37,020 --> 01:04:34,860 of people a lot of time effort and money 1368 01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:37,030 and a lot of those uses right now are 1369 01:04:42,790 --> 01:04:38,960 being filled by helicopters I will 1370 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:42,800 go out there yeah i guess a just on not 1371 01:04:48,250 --> 01:04:46,130 not to ensure too much here um when i 1372 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:48,260 was living in outside of pittsburgh for 1373 01:04:53,470 --> 01:04:50,330 a while in a rural area pennsylvania and 1374 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:53,480 there were UFO sightings in Westmoreland 1375 01:04:57,130 --> 01:04:54,770 County room that they turned out that 1376 01:04:59,050 --> 01:04:57,140 these were these were helicopters flying 1377 01:05:02,530 --> 01:04:59,060 at night looking at Paula the Lions and 1378 01:05:04,540 --> 01:05:02,540 stuff so yeah there was a cross over 1379 01:05:07,150 --> 01:05:04,550 there and that's perfect useful also one 1380 01:05:09,010 --> 01:05:07,160 thing they're a lot quieter I think 1381 01:05:10,870 --> 01:05:09,020 people will get used to that and it's 1382 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:10,880 also as far as inspecting the light 1383 01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:13,850 obsessed has done all the time but yeah 1384 01:05:18,910 --> 01:05:16,490 it was there was some confusion that was 1385 01:05:22,780 --> 01:05:18,920 due to a nocturnal inspection of 1386 01:05:25,450 --> 01:05:22,790 electrical lives well see yeah there's a 1387 01:05:27,970 --> 01:05:25,460 lot of positive uses for drones since 1388 01:05:29,950 --> 01:05:27,980 since i live in st. Louis we're all 1389 01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:29,960 really used to the police helicopter 1390 01:05:37,210 --> 01:05:34,570 it's look at looking for the gunman so 1391 01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:37,220 yeah we don't have those mistakes here 1392 01:05:42,550 --> 01:05:40,130 um believe it or not we're actually 1393 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:42,560 halfway through the show which seems 1394 01:05:46,870 --> 01:05:44,930 like a good time to announce to anybody 1395 01:05:50,770 --> 01:05:46,880 who's comin late that obviously Martin 1396 01:05:52,810 --> 01:05:50,780 is still uh not not here he's out of the 1397 01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:52,820 country I'm Michael out filling in my 1398 01:05:57,790 --> 01:05:55,280 guest tonight is a bill grabowski who 1399 01:06:01,840 --> 01:05:57,800 has written let me get the full name of 1400 01:06:04,180 --> 01:06:01,850 your book here backlight perspectives on 1401 01:06:05,950 --> 01:06:04,190 mysterious phenomena and and that's what 1402 01:06:08,980 --> 01:06:05,960 we're talking about Martin's going to be 1403 01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:08,990 back next week tonight both hours are 1404 01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:11,270 free for everyone we do not have the new 1405 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:13,370 support platform up yet it is coming 1406 01:06:18,970 --> 01:06:16,970 soon look for it after after Martin gets 1407 01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:18,980 back next week and Martin if you are 1408 01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:20,450 listening we do hope you're feeling 1409 01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:22,330 better with with your sprained ankle 1410 01:06:30,190 --> 01:06:24,950 also a little other business before we 1411 01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:30,200 jump back in the the chat room is open 1412 01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:32,720 it has been down lately but it is open 1413 01:06:36,790 --> 01:06:35,090 so that's a great way to get in on the 1414 01:06:38,860 --> 01:06:36,800 conversation I will I will pass along 1415 01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:38,870 questions from there and also if you 1416 01:06:48,820 --> 01:06:40,760 want to call in you can call in and talk 1417 01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:48,830 to us at 60 39 6 7 40 30 that's 60 39 6 1418 01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:52,400 7 40 30 so just join in and be part of 1419 01:06:55,089 --> 01:06:52,970 the conversation 1420 01:07:01,450 --> 01:06:55,099 now from the chat room somebody did ask 1421 01:07:03,310 --> 01:07:01,460 a a while ago um all right well actually 1422 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:03,320 there's two questions we'll go with this 1423 01:07:05,470 --> 01:07:04,130 since we've been talking about the 1424 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:05,480 government do you think that the 1425 01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:10,970 government has nothing to disclose no I 1426 01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:14,720 don't think that um the there are things 1427 01:07:19,900 --> 01:07:18,170 they know but then again did it not on 1428 01:07:25,150 --> 01:07:19,910 the one that they needed to disclose 1429 01:07:27,790 --> 01:07:25,160 them should they and I'm trying to put 1430 01:07:29,609 --> 01:07:27,800 myself in their spot like let's say I 1431 01:07:34,900 --> 01:07:29,619 did know something that had to do with 1432 01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:34,910 with UFOs would in any aspect you know 1433 01:07:38,980 --> 01:07:36,290 that they would have to be so careful 1434 01:07:40,570 --> 01:07:38,990 now they said yes and I don't think I 1435 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:40,580 you brought this up earlier I don't 1436 01:07:44,740 --> 01:07:42,890 really think it would cause a panic if 1437 01:07:46,780 --> 01:07:44,750 the government just said hey you know 1438 01:07:48,970 --> 01:07:46,790 what there's something here and it ain't 1439 01:07:50,859 --> 01:07:48,980 us they wouldn't say it that way of 1440 01:07:53,710 --> 01:07:50,869 course but if they said yes we we 1441 01:07:55,870 --> 01:07:53,720 verified that you know the an object was 1442 01:07:58,180 --> 01:07:55,880 spotted and you know we saw it 1443 01:08:00,099 --> 01:07:58,190 materializing or something along those 1444 01:08:03,130 --> 01:08:00,109 lines we know it is not one of us I 1445 01:08:05,020 --> 01:08:03,140 don't think people attack i think it 1446 01:08:06,970 --> 01:08:05,030 might cause some fear but i think 1447 01:08:09,790 --> 01:08:06,980 there'd be more fascination and they're 1448 01:08:13,859 --> 01:08:09,800 like everything else these days it might 1449 01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:13,869 slowly fade out toward in some kind of 1450 01:08:20,110 --> 01:08:17,210 escalation of sightings i don't know but 1451 01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:20,120 i do think the thing is that could be 1452 01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:22,400 disclosed for instance like some of the 1453 01:08:28,570 --> 01:08:25,250 earlier sightings that a sort of you 1454 01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:28,580 know been explained away which causes 1455 01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:30,560 another you know faction of people's 1456 01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:32,690 heads to explode they probably could 1457 01:08:37,059 --> 01:08:34,640 help I in that area with okay remember 1458 01:08:38,769 --> 01:08:37,069 in 1952 with his laid out sightings over 1459 01:08:43,420 --> 01:08:38,779 the nation's capital well that was 1460 01:08:46,209 --> 01:08:43,430 nothing that would help I I mean in a 1461 01:08:49,809 --> 01:08:46,219 perfect world I think disclosure would 1462 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:49,819 go something like if if they don't have 1463 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:53,770 the answers all they all they have is a 1464 01:08:59,249 --> 01:08:55,850 confirmation that there is something 1465 01:09:02,380 --> 01:08:59,259 else and you know we saw something 1466 01:09:05,289 --> 01:09:02,390 zooming past Pluto swing iratus ones are 1467 01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:05,299 tired Tyson and take off and we don't 1468 01:09:08,890 --> 01:09:06,710 know what the heck that was 1469 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:08,900 uh you know it would be nice just to say 1470 01:09:15,670 --> 01:09:12,730 this is what was there this is a let's 1471 01:09:16,959 --> 01:09:15,680 you know let's go figure this out let's 1472 01:09:18,999 --> 01:09:16,969 go take our place in the universe let's 1473 01:09:22,690 --> 01:09:19,009 go you know have that be the new Apollo 1474 01:09:24,849 --> 01:09:22,700 mission um unfortunately what I think 1475 01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:24,859 might be more the cases if there's any 1476 01:09:30,099 --> 01:09:27,290 indication of you know if they know 1477 01:09:34,599 --> 01:09:30,109 anything more about this and if there is 1478 01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:34,609 any threat real or perceived uh now more 1479 01:09:44,979 --> 01:09:38,799 than ever I just imagine you know um 1480 01:09:46,690 --> 01:09:44,989 somebody in some agency that uh maybe 1481 01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:46,700 we've heard of maybe we haven't who 1482 01:09:50,860 --> 01:09:48,799 knows it who's responsible for deciding 1483 01:09:53,380 --> 01:09:50,870 who gets to know and looking at 1484 01:09:54,940 --> 01:09:53,390 politicians and I don't want to you know 1485 01:09:56,890 --> 01:09:54,950 I'm not going to say I'm for Hillary 1486 01:09:59,310 --> 01:09:56,900 Clinton are against but looking at this 1487 01:10:01,870 --> 01:09:59,320 whole Hillary Clinton email server um 1488 01:10:05,170 --> 01:10:01,880 because one thing I will say is i have 1489 01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:05,180 set up gaming servers for friends with 1490 01:10:09,010 --> 01:10:06,650 more security than that server 1491 01:10:12,820 --> 01:10:09,020 reportedly had for a pizza and a 1492 01:10:14,830 --> 01:10:12,830 six-pack so you know and and and you 1493 01:10:17,260 --> 01:10:14,840 know can you imagine if her if Herbert 1494 01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:17,270 Hoover was alive today is he gonna is he 1495 01:10:21,610 --> 01:10:19,520 going to be saying oh yes obviously this 1496 01:10:24,250 --> 01:10:21,620 is the class I should be trusting with 1497 01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:24,260 the secret the real secrets of our 1498 01:10:32,590 --> 01:10:28,400 government i I do imagine I do imagine 1499 01:10:35,260 --> 01:10:32,600 that that it would really be something 1500 01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:35,270 that the government would want and could 1501 01:10:43,890 --> 01:10:39,890 keep as a secret um but you know that's 1502 01:10:46,959 --> 01:10:43,900 that's that's my two cents on it yeah I 1503 01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:46,969 it's been said and probably by me and 1504 01:10:52,090 --> 01:10:49,730 maybe even on the show earlier um that 1505 01:10:54,820 --> 01:10:52,100 all know they there some safe which you 1506 01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:54,830 can't keep but as far as hot in this 1507 01:10:59,530 --> 01:10:56,719 narrow area we're talking about like 1508 01:11:01,450 --> 01:10:59,540 disclosure and given like the levels of 1509 01:11:05,130 --> 01:11:01,460 bureaucracy and who has to have approval 1510 01:11:08,140 --> 01:11:05,140 from home to like say something publicly 1511 01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:08,150 and then you know the Hillary Clinton 1512 01:11:12,910 --> 01:11:10,610 example of the FBI getting in there in 1513 01:11:15,010 --> 01:11:12,920 the server and all that it's like okay 1514 01:11:17,140 --> 01:11:15,020 those people are hassled you know who 1515 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:17,150 the public and if they want us to know 1516 01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:19,010 something we're damn well going to tell 1517 01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:20,690 us it if it go 1518 01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:22,190 they're not going to tell us nor is 1519 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:25,520 anyone else because it's you know it's a 1520 01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:26,810 different kettle of fish these days 1521 01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:31,730 since sex 911 especially where you know 1522 01:11:37,380 --> 01:11:34,550 everyone is frightened them of what they 1523 01:11:41,500 --> 01:11:37,390 say and how they say myself included I 1524 01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:41,510 try not to let it run my life but as far 1525 01:11:46,090 --> 01:11:43,610 as disclosure yeah maybe maybe now is 1526 01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:46,100 possible where you know if we really 1527 01:11:50,530 --> 01:11:48,410 need to know something vital to our 1528 01:11:53,890 --> 01:11:50,540 existence they probably would tell us 1529 01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:53,900 good that that's a hard one to to get 1530 01:11:59,700 --> 01:11:56,570 your mind around we just had a great 1531 01:12:03,310 --> 01:11:59,710 comment pop up in the chat room from 1532 01:12:04,780 --> 01:12:03,320 mini Fang and it's since the government 1533 01:12:06,670 --> 01:12:04,790 has lied so much in the past 50 years 1534 01:12:08,530 --> 01:12:06,680 would anyone actually believe them if 1535 01:12:11,050 --> 01:12:08,540 they came out and disclosed what they 1536 01:12:13,570 --> 01:12:11,060 knew well well yeah that's not that's 1537 01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:13,580 like the cry wolf deal like yeah what if 1538 01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:15,760 they did say you know what 1539 01:12:20,770 --> 01:12:18,290 extraterrestrials are real we would a 1540 01:12:22,660 --> 01:12:20,780 lot of probably go yeah right we've 1541 01:12:28,150 --> 01:12:22,670 watched the x-files forget it pal we're 1542 01:12:32,890 --> 01:12:28,160 not going to believe you yeah true true 1543 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:32,900 and I'm yeah you can't who that's you 1544 01:12:37,660 --> 01:12:36,170 know that's a question that that I don't 1545 01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:37,670 know that I've ever heard discuss but 1546 01:12:42,850 --> 01:12:39,410 let's let's let's do some conjecture 1547 01:12:45,850 --> 01:12:42,860 here let's say hypothetically the 1548 01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:45,860 government the big capital G government 1549 01:12:51,630 --> 01:12:48,530 they know something large and they're 1550 01:12:56,380 --> 01:12:51,640 going to tell us and in a fit of of 1551 01:12:58,900 --> 01:12:56,390 benevolence or whatever um who would you 1552 01:13:02,170 --> 01:12:58,910 pick who who would you trust who would 1553 01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:02,180 go out there and say yes this is what we 1554 01:13:06,729 --> 01:13:04,790 know this is how we know it this is you 1555 01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:06,739 know why we're telling you who would you 1556 01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:09,650 believe it from at this point I have to 1557 01:13:15,189 --> 01:13:13,760 be Alec Baldwin I couldn't have the 1558 01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:15,199 first thing that popped in my head I 1559 01:13:24,189 --> 01:13:19,040 don't know why pocket I don't know Yakov 1560 01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:24,199 Smirnoff uh it's is he even still around 1561 01:13:31,780 --> 01:13:29,410 he's doing Branson why I were hilarious 1562 01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:31,790 maybe he attacked marked and that's why 1563 01:13:37,220 --> 01:13:33,810 his ankle got hurt I don't know 1564 01:13:40,190 --> 01:13:37,230 I'm but anywhere you know who would you 1565 01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:40,200 believe and and in it besides besides 1566 01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:45,210 just us who who would automatically not 1567 01:13:50,510 --> 01:13:47,520 believe it if they did not know it to be 1568 01:13:53,330 --> 01:13:50,520 true themselves just because it was the 1569 01:13:58,640 --> 01:13:53,340 United States saying it if China got out 1570 01:14:02,120 --> 01:13:58,650 tomorrow and had a UFO laid out in in TM 1571 01:14:06,020 --> 01:14:02,130 n square with bodies and diagrams you 1572 01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:06,030 know would would you believe it man i'll 1573 01:14:10,580 --> 01:14:08,490 tell you what i would i would be i think 1574 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:10,590 i would have a magnifying glass over my 1575 01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:12,810 computer screens to check that out and 1576 01:14:17,210 --> 01:14:14,400 they even try and figure out a way to 1577 01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:17,220 get over there because I I almost part 1578 01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:19,170 of me almost can't believe if something 1579 01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,510 did happen like that in China but that 1580 01:14:26,270 --> 01:14:23,520 that kind of a PD approach okay here's 1581 01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:26,280 what we have is it looks like and it's 1582 01:14:31,370 --> 01:14:29,610 in our possession and yeah I know you 1583 01:14:33,220 --> 01:14:31,380 can fake a lot of things on you know on 1584 01:14:35,570 --> 01:14:33,230 the internet but something of that scale 1585 01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:35,580 we're obviously there would be thousands 1586 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:37,320 of people around it I don't think that 1587 01:14:43,940 --> 01:14:42,330 could be faked but God like if the 1588 01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:43,950 United States had to make some kind of a 1589 01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:46,080 decoration like that the David would 1590 01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:49,050 have to be I almost would guarantee they 1591 01:14:54,710 --> 01:14:50,910 would choose somebody it's well known 1592 01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:54,720 and respected in the media I don't think 1593 01:14:57,980 --> 01:14:56,370 it would be you know I was just being a 1594 01:15:03,490 --> 01:14:57,990 wide that's when I said how it fall when 1595 01:15:06,380 --> 01:15:03,500 the God you never know yeah I mean do we 1596 01:15:09,890 --> 01:15:06,390 yeah is even with the media I mean do we 1597 01:15:12,380 --> 01:15:09,900 we don't have that Walter Cronkite and 1598 01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:12,390 where r murrow you know you're right 1599 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:19,650 those days are gone um which which it's 1600 01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:21,690 a man it's just a big scary world isn't 1601 01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:25,500 it it seems to be yes we're sitting at 1602 01:15:32,300 --> 01:15:30,360 it now uh we talked before a little bit 1603 01:15:36,490 --> 01:15:32,310 about your career and how this is not 1604 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:36,500 normally what you are writing about on 1605 01:15:46,250 --> 01:15:40,890 this book came out in 2014 correct yes 1606 01:15:47,690 --> 01:15:46,260 um is is is this are you one and done 1607 01:15:49,550 --> 01:15:47,700 are you 1608 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:49,560 not going to revisit this till you have 1609 01:15:56,780 --> 01:15:52,650 you think you have some answers are you 1610 01:16:01,580 --> 01:15:56,790 are we looking at black light to come 1611 01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:01,590 out later though on um good question the 1612 01:16:06,050 --> 01:16:04,290 thing is uh unfortunately on the guy 1613 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:06,060 with all the questions I don't think I 1614 01:16:12,170 --> 01:16:10,530 have any definitive answers um or after 1615 01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:12,180 this after I published this book I 1616 01:16:17,420 --> 01:16:14,400 thought well you know you've mined all 1617 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:17,430 your your journals and people you talk 1618 01:16:22,730 --> 01:16:19,650 to interviews and stuff like that the 1619 01:16:24,410 --> 01:16:22,740 material Atlanta this book um I don't 1620 01:16:28,010 --> 01:16:24,420 think it's going to get stand alone 1621 01:16:31,190 --> 01:16:28,020 again that's the only one but having 1622 01:16:33,020 --> 01:16:31,200 said that I think it's probably going to 1623 01:16:35,630 --> 01:16:33,030 take me a while to write another 1624 01:16:37,460 --> 01:16:35,640 non-fiction book about UFOs and 1625 01:16:39,980 --> 01:16:37,470 paranormal phenomena because so much has 1626 01:16:43,220 --> 01:16:39,990 happened just between me it's not even a 1627 01:16:45,830 --> 01:16:43,230 year yet since this book is pan out and 1628 01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:45,840 just the way I think about things from 1629 01:16:50,410 --> 01:16:47,970 reading others and then also just 1630 01:16:52,910 --> 01:16:50,420 watching what's going on in the world 1631 01:16:54,500 --> 01:16:52,920 everything is off so quickly I it's 1632 01:16:57,980 --> 01:16:54,510 really hard for me personally is to keep 1633 01:17:00,170 --> 01:16:57,990 up with even even UFO phenomenon you 1634 01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:00,180 know because they're so is hopes in 1635 01:17:06,890 --> 01:17:05,220 going on today and mixed in with as we 1636 01:17:10,550 --> 01:17:06,900 mentioned before like but drone 1637 01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:10,560 sightings and then regrettable I can get 1638 01:17:15,410 --> 01:17:12,330 a lot of degrees websites I don't want 1639 01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:15,420 to mention any where it's the UH Nikita 1640 01:17:19,700 --> 01:17:17,250 look at the comments well there was one 1641 01:17:22,300 --> 01:17:19,710 of the Roswell slides very well known 1642 01:17:24,830 --> 01:17:22,310 useful later and I gotta feel sorry for 1643 01:17:27,380 --> 01:17:24,840 that would not end about these roswell 1644 01:17:29,150 --> 01:17:27,390 slides and then when that came out the 1645 01:17:31,310 --> 01:17:29,160 you know it was a photograph of the 1646 01:17:34,340 --> 01:17:31,320 money like oh my God look at all this 1647 01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,350 time that was wasted but the fields been 1648 01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:36,000 that way since the fifties and I 1649 01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:38,130 realized that because they didn't have 1650 01:17:43,370 --> 01:17:41,280 the internet it's that point but to 1651 01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,380 answer your question i'm pretty sure 1652 01:17:48,380 --> 01:17:45,120 that i'll write another book I just 1653 01:17:51,260 --> 01:17:48,390 don't know when that'll be and I have 1654 01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,270 been absolutely I I did start publishing 1655 01:17:56,660 --> 01:17:53,280 on paranormal stuff back in the a's but 1656 01:17:59,720 --> 01:17:56,670 it was in such a small price magazine 1657 01:18:01,630 --> 01:17:59,730 called the gate and i believe the first 1658 01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:01,640 issue i had anything in was 1659 01:18:05,740 --> 01:18:03,890 article about an interview with Col so 1660 01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:05,750 that's what it was and there was an also 1661 01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:08,450 an article in there by Stan Gordon who 1662 01:18:13,450 --> 01:18:09,890 lives pursued my house for me in 1663 01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:13,460 Pennsylvania who researched the cat 1664 01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:16,640 health Tech's burg UFO crash and we 1665 01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:18,710 really don't agree on a lot of stuff but 1666 01:18:23,860 --> 01:18:21,770 I did start writing about this were long 1667 01:18:26,350 --> 01:18:23,870 time ago and then stopped and then 1668 01:18:32,130 --> 01:18:26,360 starting again in the early 2000s and 1669 01:18:34,660 --> 01:18:32,140 that that stuff became black light now 1670 01:18:41,230 --> 01:18:34,670 let's talk about your voice for a second 1671 01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:41,240 um you don't I mean we said it here 1672 01:18:47,650 --> 01:18:44,930 today you you are not a big fan of the 1673 01:18:52,900 --> 01:18:47,660 extra-terrestrial hypothesis you you and 1674 01:18:59,620 --> 01:18:52,910 you Ural okay um what do you think of 1675 01:19:02,230 --> 01:18:59,630 other people who are not fans of the 1676 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:02,240 extra-terrestrial hypothesis how do you 1677 01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:04,250 we've talked so much about how we're 1678 01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:07,250 viewing the UFO phenomena what about uh 1679 01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:10,190 the skeptics and the debunkers how do 1680 01:19:16,300 --> 01:19:14,210 you assess the the state of their nation 1681 01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:16,310 right now do you have any of the 1682 01:19:20,590 --> 01:19:18,080 problems that I think a lot of the 1683 01:19:25,780 --> 01:19:20,600 listeners to this show would have with 1684 01:19:28,150 --> 01:19:25,790 with those communities um well it's been 1685 01:19:29,980 --> 01:19:28,160 said before but I'll say it to be to 1686 01:19:32,650 --> 01:19:29,990 make it clear to you and to people 1687 01:19:34,980 --> 01:19:32,660 listening is that when it comes to the 1688 01:19:37,180 --> 01:19:34,990 scant decisions like and I definitely 1689 01:19:39,790 --> 01:19:37,190 against the extremists like you're 1690 01:19:41,740 --> 01:19:39,800 extreme believers in the eth the 1691 01:19:45,220 --> 01:19:41,750 extra-terrestrial hypothesis I'll also 1692 01:19:47,070 --> 01:19:45,230 against the extreme skeptics who will 1693 01:19:50,050 --> 01:19:47,080 not entertain any theory and whatsoever 1694 01:19:52,780 --> 01:19:50,060 about you know about possibilities that 1695 01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:52,790 we are being visited whether it be you 1696 01:19:59,560 --> 01:19:55,010 know physical collapse from from 1697 01:20:03,670 --> 01:19:59,570 elsewhere or from you know I guess floor 1698 01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:03,680 I go further into away from skepticism 1699 01:20:08,710 --> 01:20:05,510 is that I'm willing to entertain the 1700 01:20:11,260 --> 01:20:08,720 possibility of of parallel universes but 1701 01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:11,270 as far as the weak point in that theory 1702 01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:13,730 is well okay there probably are parallel 1703 01:20:17,860 --> 01:20:15,170 universes how 1704 01:20:20,290 --> 01:20:17,870 how do the beatings from those universes 1705 01:20:24,370 --> 01:20:20,300 get here that that's a big problem and 1706 01:20:27,370 --> 01:20:24,380 then the people behind that actually 1707 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:27,380 chief john keel was one of them he was 1708 01:20:31,959 --> 01:20:29,290 at the super spectrum and you know 1709 01:20:34,180 --> 01:20:31,969 things of that nature but he also 1710 01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:34,190 couldn't get he couldn't get his mind 1711 01:20:38,709 --> 01:20:35,690 around well okay there could be other 1712 01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:38,719 universes and it could be even human how 1713 01:20:44,770 --> 01:20:42,650 would they get here and now look hell it 1714 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:44,780 seems to have a way around that but he 1715 01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:47,570 to try to wrap your mind about that 1716 01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:50,210 around and difficult and like the 1717 01:20:57,610 --> 01:20:53,210 regarding skeptics Philip J class who is 1718 01:20:59,919 --> 01:20:57,620 now no longer among us I was one of the 1719 01:21:04,780 --> 01:20:59,929 first books I read to it was called UFOs 1720 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:04,790 explained in the Kim like 76 has said it 1721 01:21:10,300 --> 01:21:07,850 and I first thought oh my god this guy 1722 01:21:12,430 --> 01:21:10,310 is unbearable but have you I learned a 1723 01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:12,440 lot about him but mostly just I don't 1724 01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:15,170 keep your keep your head together but I 1725 01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:16,370 don't think he was right about anything 1726 01:21:22,689 --> 01:21:19,280 he seemed to not you seem to be not open 1727 01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:22,699 at all even though he's blue silk if you 1728 01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:24,770 can show me this you know evidence I 1729 01:21:29,919 --> 01:21:27,710 will open up and I probably he wasn't 1730 01:21:32,350 --> 01:21:29,929 honest about that but when someone came 1731 01:21:34,900 --> 01:21:32,360 along with evidence that he could not 1732 01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:34,910 and he really couldn't mess with he 1733 01:21:43,689 --> 01:21:37,730 seemed to back off so I can't put myself 1734 01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:43,699 in that camp uh there's uh Robert Robert 1735 01:21:50,050 --> 01:21:46,730 lot of Shaffer is a guy who makes 1736 01:21:52,630 --> 01:21:50,060 canticle more so than me um and I am I 1737 01:21:54,729 --> 01:21:52,640 admire I'm still not i'm not on the 1738 01:21:57,189 --> 01:21:54,739 extremes as far as skepticism goes I 1739 01:22:04,140 --> 01:21:57,199 think I'm more open to there being some 1740 01:22:14,530 --> 01:22:08,229 what uh so what would it take for you 1741 01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:14,540 personally to say oh damn aliens yes I 1742 01:22:22,860 --> 01:22:19,130 like in my in my case I'm a bad case it 1743 01:22:26,050 --> 01:22:22,870 would almost have has to be like a very 1744 01:22:27,939 --> 01:22:26,060 Austin counter so to speak with some 1745 01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:27,949 unusual entity and then even if there 1746 01:22:30,580 --> 01:22:28,880 happened 1747 01:22:33,729 --> 01:22:30,590 I thought right away I'm probably taking 1748 01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:33,739 okay I'm having I just had I just had a 1749 01:22:38,919 --> 01:22:37,280 cerebral accident and I'm having a 1750 01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,929 stroke and I'm hallucinating or 1751 01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:40,400 something and I would hope someone else 1752 01:22:45,129 --> 01:22:42,650 is driving me to see this thing that's 1753 01:22:48,550 --> 01:22:45,139 what it would have to take the little 1754 01:22:49,660 --> 01:22:48,560 girl out stroke hypothesis you have to 1755 01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:49,670 be something like that i'm having 1756 01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:55,850 temporal lobe epilepsy right now uh well 1757 01:23:00,490 --> 01:22:59,120 okay so is is there no organization than 1758 01:23:03,879 --> 01:23:00,500 you just I mean it would have to be 1759 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:03,889 personal for you until you feel cold 1760 01:23:11,740 --> 01:23:07,610 steel all probe you don't you're not do 1761 01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:11,750 it Yates um well I'm thankful start 1762 01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:13,730 again it yeah we're depending on who 1763 01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:16,489 okay if you're looking for a name I 1764 01:23:21,729 --> 01:23:19,730 guess if someone like shops le so ok 1765 01:23:23,950 --> 01:23:21,739 here is the evidence I have you have to 1766 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:23,960 show you the image right he is someone i 1767 01:23:28,390 --> 01:23:26,810 would trust i will i will go over the 1768 01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:28,400 edge Nancy yes I will trust shop 1769 01:23:34,959 --> 01:23:32,690 Philippe if he said Joe and I have I 1770 01:23:37,330 --> 01:23:34,969 have evidence and here it is I would 1771 01:23:39,100 --> 01:23:37,340 check it out as I don't trust anyone you 1772 01:23:43,950 --> 01:23:39,110 know a hundred percent who does but it 1773 01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:46,209 different there's a guy was a website 1774 01:23:54,879 --> 01:23:50,000 called the UFO trail jack bluer I his 1775 01:23:58,149 --> 01:23:54,889 opinion I would trust but what about 1776 01:24:02,890 --> 01:23:58,159 what about government agency or 1777 01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:02,900 governments um you know if if uh let's 1778 01:24:08,379 --> 01:24:06,170 pull ah i'm trying to think of a of a 1779 01:24:10,540 --> 01:24:08,389 fairly neutral country and i really i 1780 01:24:12,250 --> 01:24:10,550 mean other than switzerland which and 1781 01:24:14,770 --> 01:24:12,260 i'm really not thinking of something 1782 01:24:15,790 --> 01:24:14,780 that's not gonna jaundice people one way 1783 01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:15,800 or another so let's just say with 1784 01:24:21,550 --> 01:24:19,040 switzerland let's say the swiss tomorrow 1785 01:24:22,899 --> 01:24:21,560 came out and said you know we're sick of 1786 01:24:27,310 --> 01:24:22,909 keeping other people's secrets this is 1787 01:24:30,340 --> 01:24:27,320 this is what we know about it um and and 1788 01:24:33,209 --> 01:24:30,350 and they're all coming from Alpha 1789 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:33,219 Centauri or the Pleiades or whatever uh 1790 01:24:39,010 --> 01:24:36,050 you know how much stock do you place in 1791 01:24:40,990 --> 01:24:39,020 something like that well if it came from 1792 01:24:42,459 --> 01:24:41,000 the Swiss I have to admit I probably 1793 01:24:44,649 --> 01:24:42,469 would be 1794 01:24:47,709 --> 01:24:44,659 possibly a little predisposed to to 1795 01:24:48,819 --> 01:24:47,719 accept it up again and I would have to 1796 01:24:52,180 --> 01:24:48,829 be a very they would have to present 1797 01:24:54,489 --> 01:24:52,190 something at anyone making it disclosure 1798 01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:54,499 would and I would definitely pay deep 1799 01:25:00,219 --> 01:24:56,690 attention to it and and connectedness 1800 01:25:02,319 --> 01:25:00,229 wish yeah I would probably want to want 1801 01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:02,329 to trust them because they just seems a 1802 01:25:06,430 --> 01:25:04,010 damn friendly and I know everyone says 1803 01:25:10,299 --> 01:25:06,440 that but it seems to be true from for 1804 01:25:12,989 --> 01:25:10,309 people i know of travel there I probably 1805 01:25:18,279 --> 01:25:12,999 would have a little predisposition to 1806 01:25:20,729 --> 01:25:18,289 testing so if the Russians come out 1807 01:25:24,310 --> 01:25:20,739 tomorrow and say this we you know we 1808 01:25:25,839 --> 01:25:24,320 recaptured this UFO and whenever they're 1809 01:25:30,489 --> 01:25:25,849 supposed to have captured UFOs I'm not 1810 01:25:31,509 --> 01:25:30,499 up on my russian ufology you know that 1811 01:25:35,919 --> 01:25:31,519 that's one you're gonna you're gonna 1812 01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:35,929 give the [\h__\h] I to up a nominal because 1813 01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:39,170 we're having such a serious kinda 1814 01:25:43,060 --> 01:25:41,360 lopsided relationship with Russia these 1815 01:25:45,219 --> 01:25:43,070 days I you know they could say we you 1816 01:25:48,700 --> 01:25:45,229 know we have American while to the 1817 01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:48,710 lowest in custody his ankle is hurt we 1818 01:25:56,259 --> 01:25:52,010 have you for two and I don't know if I 1819 01:25:58,899 --> 01:25:56,269 would I trust him like I trust the 1820 01:26:01,540 --> 01:25:58,909 intellectual nature okay they seem to 1821 01:26:02,919 --> 01:26:01,550 really be like like in the 60s they had 1822 01:26:04,569 --> 01:26:02,929 all this psychic research and they were 1823 01:26:07,390 --> 01:26:04,579 dance serious about it if you've ever 1824 01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:07,400 read any others like some psychic 1825 01:26:11,739 --> 01:26:09,710 research behind the Iron Curtain the 1826 01:26:15,759 --> 01:26:11,749 name of the book absolutely love that 1827 01:26:18,069 --> 01:26:15,769 yes so you do know yeah there was deadly 1828 01:26:20,020 --> 01:26:18,079 serious about it i think that the 1829 01:26:22,299 --> 01:26:20,030 Americans were as well that the Russians 1830 01:26:25,379 --> 01:26:22,309 were like wow they really got into that 1831 01:26:28,779 --> 01:26:25,389 so I if they were to make a disclosure 1832 01:26:31,660 --> 01:26:28,789 man I don't know I I would be I'd be 1833 01:26:34,689 --> 01:26:31,670 hesitant but then I think that they may 1834 01:26:37,660 --> 01:26:34,699 also want to be do they want to be the 1835 01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:37,670 ones that have to ply having made this 1836 01:26:42,370 --> 01:26:40,159 discovery disclosure I you know however 1837 01:26:43,540 --> 01:26:42,380 you want to look at it and what might 1838 01:26:46,029 --> 01:26:43,550 actually be willing to trust them 1839 01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:46,039 because they would want to be known just 1840 01:26:51,450 --> 01:26:47,449 like we would you know hey we're the 1841 01:26:54,459 --> 01:26:51,460 guys you got to got the holy grail um 1842 01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:54,469 the name of the podcast is podcast UFO 1843 01:26:58,030 --> 01:26:56,210 but 1844 01:27:01,240 --> 01:26:58,040 I'm the guy holding the mic everybody so 1845 01:27:04,630 --> 01:27:01,250 I'm gonna I'm gonna deviate from UFOs 1846 01:27:08,020 --> 01:27:04,640 for a second again and and and go this 1847 01:27:10,900 --> 01:27:08,030 way you talk in the book black lights 1848 01:27:13,330 --> 01:27:10,910 uh-uh you like to term you seem to like 1849 01:27:16,570 --> 01:27:13,340 the term for TN I mean you do kind of 1850 01:27:23,229 --> 01:27:16,580 refer to his his body of general 1851 01:27:25,470 --> 01:27:23,239 strangeness um other than UFOs do you 1852 01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:25,480 have interest in in some of the other 1853 01:27:32,770 --> 01:27:28,489 phenomena out there that that kind of 1854 01:27:37,900 --> 01:27:32,780 often gets lumped in with UFOs in say a 1855 01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:37,910 syndicated radio talk show um so uh you 1856 01:27:43,500 --> 01:27:40,489 know what would do you look into 1857 01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:43,510 personally psychic phenomenon 1858 01:27:49,870 --> 01:27:47,810 cryptozoology uh ghosts in any 1859 01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:49,880 black-eyed kids those things are scary 1860 01:27:57,660 --> 01:27:53,770 as hell any of that stuff I'm very 1861 01:28:01,570 --> 01:27:57,670 interested in actually I started out 1862 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:01,580 with being interested in both in UFOs 1863 01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:03,770 and paranormal phenomenon and then what 1864 01:28:09,580 --> 01:28:06,370 i discovered the works of colin wilson 1865 01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:09,590 who passed away not too long ago um i 1866 01:28:16,570 --> 01:28:12,650 really got interested because he seemed 1867 01:28:18,390 --> 01:28:16,580 to be someone who cared about about the 1868 01:28:21,459 --> 01:28:18,400 science behind these things especially 1869 01:28:23,770 --> 01:28:21,469 I'm he wrote a book in 1980 called 1870 01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:23,780 poltergeist study and disruptive 1871 01:28:28,930 --> 01:28:26,210 haunting and there seemed to be a lot of 1872 01:28:31,060 --> 01:28:28,940 good science in that book um and that 1873 01:28:34,090 --> 01:28:31,070 got me interested in in the other 1874 01:28:35,890 --> 01:28:34,100 aspects and between he and and John keel 1875 01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:35,900 saying well you know if you would see 1876 01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:39,530 paranormal stuff but could be healed 1877 01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:42,590 gives examples of actual families where 1878 01:28:47,979 --> 01:28:45,110 they had a UFO sighting and then shortly 1879 01:28:50,020 --> 01:28:47,989 after they were invaded by but 1880 01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:50,030 apparently was a poltergeist like 1881 01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:52,850 phenomena with the markings and unusual 1882 01:29:01,530 --> 01:28:57,170 fires and pools of water so I'm 1883 01:29:05,260 --> 01:29:01,540 interested in that as well and that also 1884 01:29:08,979 --> 01:29:05,270 branches off into both charles fort 1885 01:29:10,060 --> 01:29:08,989 which actually i read his last book Wild 1886 01:29:12,459 --> 01:29:10,070 Talents 1887 01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:12,469 that he published in 1932 that was the 1888 01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:14,480 first of his folks I read and that was I 1889 01:29:20,740 --> 01:29:17,510 think I was taught in school and that 1890 01:29:23,169 --> 01:29:20,750 was a long time ago but yeah I have a 1891 01:29:25,419 --> 01:29:23,179 very large interest in all these 1892 01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:25,429 phenomena the the only possible 1893 01:29:31,209 --> 01:29:27,199 exceptions as you mentioned black-eyed 1894 01:29:34,209 --> 01:29:31,219 kids and there's some guys and there's 1895 01:29:37,030 --> 01:29:34,219 another figure is it too tall man I'm 1896 01:29:38,859 --> 01:29:37,040 saying it wrong so the shadow people 1897 01:29:41,830 --> 01:29:38,869 kind of thing is that is that what 1898 01:29:44,290 --> 01:29:41,840 you're referring yeah yeah yeah I think 1899 01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:44,300 that I think that those are just like 1900 01:29:50,729 --> 01:29:47,090 like a splinter off of preview no 1901 01:29:53,140 --> 01:29:50,739 so-called pre-existing phenomenon like 1902 01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:53,150 on a black-eyed kids yeah that seems 1903 01:29:59,800 --> 01:29:57,010 like an anomaly but it also seems like a 1904 01:30:02,530 --> 01:29:59,810 done with the cultural like a trend 1905 01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:02,540 almost because you don't hear that you 1906 01:30:06,819 --> 01:30:05,090 don't hear that reported however before 1907 01:30:09,370 --> 01:30:06,829 the two thousands not not to my 1908 01:30:11,379 --> 01:30:09,380 knowledge and I and I read pretty widely 1909 01:30:12,850 --> 01:30:11,389 and pay attention so I don't know what 1910 01:30:14,649 --> 01:30:12,860 to think that the black-eyed kids with 1911 01:30:17,649 --> 01:30:14,659 the black-eyed shows I really don't know 1912 01:30:19,750 --> 01:30:17,659 you know which way ya sounds free but I 1913 01:30:23,050 --> 01:30:19,760 I agree and it's like where did they 1914 01:30:25,959 --> 01:30:23,060 come from you know exactly it's like a 1915 01:30:30,459 --> 01:30:25,969 meme accept that then on the on this the 1916 01:30:33,250 --> 01:30:30,469 same side is then it struck me not too 1917 01:30:37,450 --> 01:30:33,260 long ago uh I was cleaning some stuff up 1918 01:30:41,050 --> 01:30:37,460 and I came across my stack of Montague 1919 01:30:46,089 --> 01:30:41,060 summers books um are you familiar with 1920 01:30:47,260 --> 01:30:46,099 Monica summers yeah okay if listeners if 1921 01:30:50,850 --> 01:30:47,270 you're not familiar with money you 1922 01:30:54,850 --> 01:30:50,860 summers he was someone who was very 1923 01:30:57,839 --> 01:30:54,860 convinced that about a hundred years ago 1924 01:31:02,050 --> 01:30:57,849 that vampires were quite real and 1925 01:31:04,750 --> 01:31:02,060 instruments of the devil uh and and he 1926 01:31:07,180 --> 01:31:04,760 has some very some crazy books but but 1927 01:31:09,870 --> 01:31:07,190 one of the things that that kind of 1928 01:31:13,510 --> 01:31:09,880 dawned on me was that the whole um 1929 01:31:17,290 --> 01:31:13,520 having to be invited in aspect which 1930 01:31:22,030 --> 01:31:17,300 several vampiric beings supposedly 1931 01:31:23,530 --> 01:31:22,040 needed in different cultures according 1932 01:31:25,930 --> 01:31:23,540 to summers that 1933 01:31:30,690 --> 01:31:25,940 that seems to be a theme in this black 1934 01:31:34,660 --> 01:31:30,700 eye kids stories and is is this the new 1935 01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:34,670 the new I don't know resurgence of some 1936 01:31:44,770 --> 01:31:40,730 very ancient odd uh it doesn't almost 1937 01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:44,780 does seem like if it seems like well it 1938 01:31:49,780 --> 01:31:47,330 seems like a cultural updating just a 1939 01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:49,790 similar to like the the airship 1940 01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:52,490 sightings in 1890s of the ritual like 1941 01:31:57,390 --> 01:31:54,770 objects what one of which took place not 1942 01:32:00,130 --> 01:31:57,400 far from more on that in sistersville 1943 01:32:02,710 --> 01:32:00,140 West Virginia it's about 30 miles from 1944 01:32:06,430 --> 01:32:02,720 here and that was what the precursor 1945 01:32:09,340 --> 01:32:06,440 where the excuse me or the phenomenon 1946 01:32:11,980 --> 01:32:09,350 acted like modern-day UFO a cast bright 1947 01:32:13,660 --> 01:32:11,990 lights on the ground strange beings came 1948 01:32:16,300 --> 01:32:13,670 out and said absurd things to people 1949 01:32:20,740 --> 01:32:16,310 just like they handled I believe oh 1950 01:32:24,700 --> 01:32:20,750 that's right yeah but he apparently you 1951 01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:24,710 know ropa Carol up there arm but yeah 1952 01:32:28,630 --> 01:32:26,450 the black-eyed kids in there and there 1953 01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:28,640 they having to be welcomed old and 1954 01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:31,280 threshold that I will actually I wasn't 1955 01:32:36,430 --> 01:32:33,890 aware of that aspect but that does sound 1956 01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:36,440 like it's another instance of like I 1957 01:32:41,830 --> 01:32:39,770 told the manifestations so-called 1958 01:32:46,180 --> 01:32:41,840 updating themselves to keep up with the 1959 01:32:50,050 --> 01:32:46,190 culture um I have a question from the 1960 01:32:51,670 --> 01:32:50,060 from the chat room from now somebody is 1961 01:32:54,220 --> 01:32:51,680 simply a guest doesn't identify 1962 01:32:56,440 --> 01:32:54,230 themselves cuz this I think might open 1963 01:32:59,170 --> 01:32:56,450 hole Canada were now I'm gonna read 1964 01:33:01,570 --> 01:32:59,180 exactly what what they say and it's ask 1965 01:33:05,740 --> 01:33:01,580 him what he thinks about in all capital 1966 01:33:07,690 --> 01:33:05,750 letters abductions dun-dun-duh and I'm 1967 01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:07,700 gonna add well I wrote a book so i'm not 1968 01:33:15,460 --> 01:33:12,800 going to talk first okay um well what I 1969 01:33:18,970 --> 01:33:15,470 think and and this has evolved to 1970 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:18,980 because I really i didn't have a high 1971 01:33:24,790 --> 01:33:21,650 awareness for these things abductions 1972 01:33:26,260 --> 01:33:24,800 that is until it would it be dated 1973 01:33:28,030 --> 01:33:26,270 whitley strieber and i don't remember 1974 01:33:31,180 --> 01:33:28,040 what it could have been a job valley 1975 01:33:33,610 --> 01:33:31,190 book where it was mentioned but not in 1976 01:33:35,740 --> 01:33:33,620 it was before it was a big you know 1977 01:33:37,150 --> 01:33:35,750 cultural tours even a blip on the 1978 01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:37,160 cultural radar 1979 01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:39,410 that's how I kind of took it seriously 1980 01:33:45,460 --> 01:33:41,690 because I have evolved from someone who 1981 01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:45,470 pretty much said did extraterrestrial 1982 01:33:50,110 --> 01:33:48,290 hypothesis so when I first heard about 1983 01:33:52,450 --> 01:33:50,120 abductions I'm like well it would make 1984 01:33:54,700 --> 01:33:52,460 sense but why would they need to do it 1985 01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:54,710 as often as they seem to and then when i 1986 01:33:59,320 --> 01:33:57,920 read valley talking about that saying 1987 01:34:01,360 --> 01:33:59,330 well here's why I abductions probably 1988 01:34:03,190 --> 01:34:01,370 aren't what they appear to be because 1989 01:34:06,490 --> 01:34:03,200 why why would they need to be so cruel 1990 01:34:11,370 --> 01:34:06,500 ooh and when we have technology to do it 1991 01:34:15,070 --> 01:34:11,380 much causing drama I changed my tune and 1992 01:34:18,220 --> 01:34:15,080 then and then I evolved into the thanks 1993 01:34:21,910 --> 01:34:18,230 to meeting Jim Keith where and Martin 1994 01:34:24,810 --> 01:34:21,920 cannon Martin canon law paper I think 1995 01:34:28,510 --> 01:34:24,820 also was expanded into a paperback book 1996 01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:28,520 called the controllers where he was 1997 01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:32,930 giving the military security where they 1998 01:34:37,690 --> 01:34:36,320 were kidnapping people for like yahoo 1999 01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:37,700 knows its parent mind-control 2000 01:34:41,950 --> 01:34:40,010 experimentation and also to test 2001 01:34:45,180 --> 01:34:41,960 thresholds because they were interested 2002 01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:45,190 in creating a so-called super soldiers 2003 01:34:50,380 --> 01:34:47,810 someone who could withstand torture and 2004 01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:50,390 that they were abducting members of the 2005 01:34:57,670 --> 01:34:52,850 American public and hiding behind the 2006 01:35:00,160 --> 01:34:57,680 alien abduction agenda by basically and 2007 01:35:03,220 --> 01:35:00,170 planning hypnotic suggestions in the 2008 01:35:05,740 --> 01:35:03,230 people so when they were regressed they 2009 01:35:10,210 --> 01:35:05,750 would have a memory of you know all of 2010 01:35:15,250 --> 01:35:10,220 the delays came and got me so currently 2011 01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:15,260 I do you think I'm once used by military 2012 01:35:20,460 --> 01:35:17,510 who knows just intelligence for some 2013 01:35:24,700 --> 01:35:20,470 purpose or some corporate group even 2014 01:35:26,230 --> 01:35:24,710 used it but as far as do they happen 2015 01:35:29,610 --> 01:35:26,240 that they actually happened I think they 2016 01:35:33,310 --> 01:35:29,620 do I think it's an internal 2017 01:35:36,730 --> 01:35:33,320 manifestation well I it's not all do the 2018 01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:36,740 I know that sleep paralysis is a big 2019 01:35:42,430 --> 01:35:38,810 factor that comes into some of these 2020 01:35:44,590 --> 01:35:42,440 theories where you know you think Carol 2021 01:35:46,150 --> 01:35:44,600 Nick and you can't move the other thing 2022 01:35:49,420 --> 01:35:46,160 as you are partly awake and you cannot 2023 01:35:50,950 --> 01:35:49,430 move and some people see things they see 2024 01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:50,960 entities and they 2025 01:35:55,420 --> 01:35:53,570 in today's falta they think well I saw 2026 01:35:57,820 --> 01:35:55,430 an alien but in reality you've had a 2027 01:36:00,790 --> 01:35:57,830 hallucination some kind of I'm kind of 2028 01:36:02,530 --> 01:36:00,800 more towards the cycle social and of 2029 01:36:04,090 --> 01:36:02,540 that aspect look at ductions like 2030 01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:04,100 something's definitely going on because 2031 01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:07,850 it traumatizes p right but actually what 2032 01:36:14,709 --> 01:36:11,210 it is I don't know but I know something 2033 01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:14,719 is I had you know people are still 2034 01:36:18,550 --> 01:36:16,489 reporting these things what the 2035 01:36:20,530 --> 01:36:18,560 reporting I don't know that I think it's 2036 01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:20,540 it has a lot to do with us like its 2037 01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:25,040 protective projection do but I think 2038 01:36:32,770 --> 01:36:30,410 it's maybe a demon the numerators I mean 2039 01:36:35,110 --> 01:36:32,780 always I still gave you a star seeing 2040 01:36:36,790 --> 01:36:35,120 something and you know I think ending on 2041 01:36:39,340 --> 01:36:36,800 on your background like if you have 2042 01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:39,350 religious face and let's say you have an 2043 01:36:46,630 --> 01:36:41,810 aggressive haunting in your house you're 2044 01:36:50,350 --> 01:36:46,640 gonna say yeah there's a demon here but 2045 01:36:53,170 --> 01:36:50,360 I mean X to actually see them because it 2046 01:36:56,260 --> 01:36:53,180 seems like there was a time where people 2047 01:36:58,060 --> 01:36:56,270 seemed fairly comfortable thinking they 2048 01:37:01,000 --> 01:36:58,070 knew what they look like i I just I just 2049 01:37:06,150 --> 01:37:01,010 wonder I mean I how do you fall in the 2050 01:37:08,860 --> 01:37:06,160 in the UFOs are the demons and the 2051 01:37:12,090 --> 01:37:08,870 leprechauns of yesterday feel the 2052 01:37:15,490 --> 01:37:12,100 thought I see well I as far as that goes 2053 01:37:18,220 --> 01:37:15,500 excuse me I feel kind of the same way I 2054 01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:18,230 just said about lucky abductions where 2055 01:37:23,860 --> 01:37:21,290 the first red keel and Valley seem to 2056 01:37:26,110 --> 01:37:23,870 come to this conclusion or my conclusion 2057 01:37:28,810 --> 01:37:26,120 the formula it is scary at the same time 2058 01:37:31,450 --> 01:37:28,820 in the 60s where there are always with 2059 01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:31,460 these reports there if you if you read 2060 01:37:36,910 --> 01:37:33,530 them cold they're almost ridiculous like 2061 01:37:39,459 --> 01:37:36,920 goblin type creatures wearing glowing 2062 01:37:42,610 --> 01:37:39,469 green uniforms and they get the way the 2063 01:37:45,070 --> 01:37:42,620 witnesses describe them they're like the 2064 01:37:47,740 --> 01:37:45,080 physically very real exciting life 2065 01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:47,750 smelled like what it felt like what 2066 01:37:51,220 --> 01:37:49,010 these things look like and then 2067 01:37:53,709 --> 01:37:51,230 Wednesday Lee mentioned in passport to 2068 01:37:56,350 --> 01:37:53,719 magana about he was comparing this to 2069 01:37:58,870 --> 01:37:56,360 the literature from falak some long ago 2070 01:38:03,900 --> 01:37:58,880 about real people were calling in demons 2071 01:38:06,740 --> 01:38:03,910 and goblins and left four times and 2072 01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:06,750 Sarah Layton that the UFO occupants 2073 01:38:10,980 --> 01:38:09,730 acted the same way and when I first 2074 01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:10,990 encountered that theory I thought God 2075 01:38:14,610 --> 01:38:12,880 that made that really makes sense 2076 01:38:17,430 --> 01:38:14,620 because they do ba the same way they 2077 01:38:18,930 --> 01:38:17,440 offer people food and you're told not to 2078 01:38:22,710 --> 01:38:18,940 take it because if you do they'll never 2079 01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:22,720 come back and that it's deep in the into 2080 01:38:28,830 --> 01:38:25,090 the cultural mythology of a lot of 2081 01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:28,840 cultures and then these entities citing 2082 01:38:34,140 --> 01:38:31,570 stole they seem to they escalated in the 2083 01:38:36,060 --> 01:38:34,150 60s and in the early 70s and then they 2084 01:38:38,820 --> 01:38:36,070 kind of you don't hear a whole lot of 2085 01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:38,830 many more once in a while you do but 2086 01:38:43,890 --> 01:38:41,770 those things of have dropped off for 2087 01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:43,900 some reason and I think that reason is 2088 01:38:48,300 --> 01:38:46,090 it's the evolution of human 2089 01:38:50,820 --> 01:38:48,310 consciousness we're looking at other 2090 01:38:53,580 --> 01:38:50,830 things were afraid of other things and 2091 01:38:55,890 --> 01:38:53,590 being you know seeing entities is not 2092 01:38:58,830 --> 01:38:55,900 one of them anymore so you do y'all are 2093 01:39:01,560 --> 01:38:58,840 reports of so called it a creature of 2094 01:39:04,350 --> 01:39:01,570 cryptids all right I'm gonna I'm gonna 2095 01:39:06,540 --> 01:39:04,360 throw this at you and also the audience 2096 01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:06,550 you know weigh in on the chat room and 2097 01:39:12,510 --> 01:39:10,810 also feel free to call 603 967 4030 we 2098 01:39:18,150 --> 01:39:12,520 have about 20 minutes left in the show 2099 01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:18,160 um you are introduced to to a friend of 2100 01:39:24,270 --> 01:39:20,400 a friend an acquaintance did a party and 2101 01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:24,280 he's a little bit agitated and people 2102 01:39:27,630 --> 01:39:25,690 what what's wrong is like well you're 2103 01:39:30,810 --> 01:39:27,640 not gonna believe me and then he 2104 01:39:34,140 --> 01:39:30,820 proceeds to say one of two things on the 2105 01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:34,150 way here you know I have to cut through 2106 01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:37,330 this this dark area and there was this 2107 01:39:42,300 --> 01:39:40,210 silver disc and it was sitting in this 2108 01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:42,310 farmer's field and there were these 2109 01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:46,810 three little people standing around and 2110 01:39:49,530 --> 01:39:48,250 then looked at me and I looked them and 2111 01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:49,540 I was like oh my god I got out of there 2112 01:39:55,530 --> 01:39:53,050 that's that's statement one statement to 2113 01:39:57,270 --> 01:39:55,540 that he could make is oh you're not 2114 01:39:58,710 --> 01:39:57,280 gonna believe me this is this is crazy I 2115 01:40:00,450 --> 01:39:58,720 had to drive over here and I Drive 2116 01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:00,460 through that that dark area and I looked 2117 01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:04,210 over in the farmer's field and there 2118 01:40:13,140 --> 01:40:08,530 were fairies flying around a a willow 2119 01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:13,150 wisp campfire okay which of those people 2120 01:40:17,580 --> 01:40:15,610 are you going to definitely walk away 2121 01:40:19,620 --> 01:40:17,590 from a party 2122 01:40:21,209 --> 01:40:19,630 you know what I don't I don't think it 2123 01:40:24,060 --> 01:40:21,219 would walk away from either i think i 2124 01:40:26,089 --> 01:40:24,070 might say let's let's grab some drinks 2125 01:40:29,399 --> 01:40:26,099 and go outside and talk about this 2126 01:40:30,899 --> 01:40:29,409 because if if you're talking about you 2127 01:40:33,089 --> 01:40:30,909 know someone yeah well that's cause you 2128 01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:33,099 just did if someone's driving right and 2129 01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:35,050 they report you know they're driving 2130 01:40:40,350 --> 01:40:37,690 their bill wake and they see these 2131 01:40:42,180 --> 01:40:40,360 things they're like well would that come 2132 01:40:44,700 --> 01:40:42,190 from you know there they weren't uh 2133 01:40:48,419 --> 01:40:44,710 thinking about it and all of a sudden 2134 01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:48,429 they saw it and you could say well as 2135 01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:50,530 i've read but i didn't know about this 2136 01:40:54,899 --> 01:40:52,570 phenomena called micro sleep but i'm not 2137 01:40:56,700 --> 01:40:54,909 even sure I buy it really where you can 2138 01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:56,710 actually eat somewhere you could be 2139 01:41:00,959 --> 01:40:59,440 driving can be walking it but you're not 2140 01:41:03,330 --> 01:41:00,969 conscious for a while for a few moments 2141 01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:03,340 or a few seconds and then you come lot 2142 01:41:08,189 --> 01:41:05,050 of it and you have a weird memory of 2143 01:41:09,930 --> 01:41:08,199 something but to answer your question if 2144 01:41:12,419 --> 01:41:09,940 I encountered those two people a party I 2145 01:41:15,180 --> 01:41:12,429 I don't think i would turn away either 2146 01:41:17,700 --> 01:41:15,190 of them my my knee-jerk reaction would 2147 01:41:21,060 --> 01:41:17,710 be oh yeah sure you did but I'd have to 2148 01:41:22,649 --> 01:41:21,070 talk to it's still okay let's let's talk 2149 01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:22,659 about this right now I was fresh in your 2150 01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:25,570 mind and then we probably end up talking 2151 01:41:30,990 --> 01:41:27,489 for like for like six hours after that 2152 01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:31,000 about possibilities you know but but but 2153 01:41:40,500 --> 01:41:33,760 you you honestly you wouldn't place any 2154 01:41:43,020 --> 01:41:40,510 other you you let's remove it from you 2155 01:41:45,839 --> 01:41:43,030 how about just most people I think today 2156 01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:45,849 I'll put it this way I think today you 2157 01:41:52,589 --> 01:41:49,810 you are going to fare better if you say 2158 01:41:59,010 --> 01:41:52,599 I saw UFO and there were aliens then I 2159 01:42:00,330 --> 01:41:59,020 saw leprechauns wood spirits um yeah you 2160 01:42:04,879 --> 01:42:00,340 know you know what I mean I mean I think 2161 01:42:06,990 --> 01:42:04,889 I think yeah there's I have seen 2162 01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:07,000 something in the sky that i am not sure 2163 01:42:12,180 --> 01:42:08,800 what it is I'm very comfortable talking 2164 01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:12,190 about that if I had a little dude in a 2165 01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:15,250 green suit come out and offer me a pot 2166 01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:17,290 of gold no one would ever hear about 2167 01:42:23,790 --> 01:42:21,730 that trust me yeah that that that would 2168 01:42:27,689 --> 01:42:23,800 be a very difficult thing to say cuz you 2169 01:42:29,550 --> 01:42:27,699 betta I'm sanity I know are you being 2170 01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:29,560 like I mentioned earlier I'd be in fear 2171 01:42:33,370 --> 01:42:30,770 of like 2172 01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:33,380 it's a terrible incident you know why 2173 01:42:37,420 --> 01:42:35,930 did I see that + + + me being someone 2174 01:42:40,150 --> 01:42:37,430 interested in this stuff I'd be 2175 01:42:42,430 --> 01:42:40,160 completely suspect you know like yeah 2176 01:42:44,380 --> 01:42:42,440 sure you saw on this thing no one's 2177 01:42:46,810 --> 01:42:44,390 going to believe you but if you say if 2178 01:42:48,850 --> 01:42:46,820 you saw some technological suppose that 2179 01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:48,860 objects through your chances of being 2180 01:42:54,510 --> 01:42:51,050 accepted are a lot higher than saying 2181 01:43:00,010 --> 01:42:54,520 saw this diminutive being wearing a 2182 01:43:03,910 --> 01:43:00,020 green foil suit yeah I mean it seems 2183 01:43:08,050 --> 01:43:03,920 sometimes to me that uh lately it is 2184 01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:08,060 almost more it is definitely in my 2185 01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:11,290 opinion more acceptable to see a UFO 2186 01:43:19,480 --> 01:43:14,570 than to see the Loch Ness monster or 2187 01:43:20,950 --> 01:43:19,490 Bigfoot yeah yeah I agree with that also 2188 01:43:23,530 --> 01:43:20,960 lecture as long as people have been 2189 01:43:25,690 --> 01:43:23,540 saying are reported you know Bigfoot 2190 01:43:27,790 --> 01:43:25,700 sightings and that is still like part 2191 01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:27,800 part of the so-called underground and it 2192 01:43:37,150 --> 01:43:34,010 already fringe subject and even know 2193 01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:37,160 what though yes there were there was a 2194 01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:39,170 photo I think it was an eighties photo 2195 01:43:43,870 --> 01:43:41,330 it looked like a massive was under the 2196 01:43:45,310 --> 01:43:43,880 photo of like a massive fin it looked 2197 01:43:47,620 --> 01:43:45,320 that that's what it looked like an 2198 01:43:50,830 --> 01:43:47,630 apparently that this des photo has been 2199 01:43:52,990 --> 01:43:50,840 i guess the bump is the right word for 2200 01:43:55,630 --> 01:43:53,000 i'm not sure how i don't remember 2201 01:43:57,460 --> 01:43:55,640 reading that report about well how did a 2202 01:43:59,710 --> 01:43:57,470 out of asian food this was not part of a 2203 01:44:04,900 --> 01:43:59,720 you know an organic creature i do you 2204 01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:04,910 know anything about that DM i vaguely 2205 01:44:11,140 --> 01:44:07,520 remember a like a sonar image of a fan 2206 01:44:14,410 --> 01:44:11,150 um but that would I think I out of it 2207 01:44:16,690 --> 01:44:14,420 earlier I think that what brought in the 2208 01:44:20,350 --> 01:44:16,700 60s me you know maybe there are 2209 01:44:23,290 --> 01:44:20,360 companies um but yeah I asked admit i'm 2210 01:44:27,310 --> 01:44:23,300 not i'm not super up on my on my loch 2211 01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:27,320 ness monster well i'm not either i mean 2212 01:44:34,690 --> 01:44:31,130 i feel i know i'm going to say hey i can 2213 01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:34,700 only put so much on my gosh right yes 2214 01:44:42,790 --> 01:44:39,770 yeah um well we are in the final minutes 2215 01:44:44,260 --> 01:44:42,800 we've got 15 15 minutes left if we were 2216 01:44:44,650 --> 01:44:44,270 a traditional radio show would be the 2217 01:44:50,380 --> 01:44:44,660 final 2218 01:44:52,870 --> 01:44:50,390 you I would like to give you the 2219 01:44:58,150 --> 01:44:52,880 opportunity and an open mic to tell 2220 01:45:00,870 --> 01:44:58,160 everyone how to find your books okay 2221 01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:00,880 thank you well the easiest water they 2222 01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:04,010 would be just to go to amazon.com and 2223 01:45:13,300 --> 01:45:09,410 type in william Grabowski gra b owm say 2224 01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:13,310 hi and that will bring up that what ya 2225 01:45:20,440 --> 01:45:16,810 all my works all my published works and 2226 01:45:23,980 --> 01:45:20,450 there's a pop section there plant 2227 01:45:28,170 --> 01:45:23,990 primarily and well as he divided between 2228 01:45:33,300 --> 01:45:28,180 um i guess i would say a branch of sod 2229 01:45:37,630 --> 01:45:33,310 science fiction and weird fiction plus 2230 01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:37,640 horsham and a movie tie-in i wrote with 2231 01:45:43,390 --> 01:45:39,650 michael sales it's called Castro's cat 2232 01:45:46,990 --> 01:45:43,400 black that is a fact it's a darkly 2233 01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:47,000 humorous bull a group of middle-aged 2234 01:45:51,450 --> 01:45:48,850 guys who get together I want to steal 2235 01:45:53,830 --> 01:45:51,460 Fidel Castro's classic car collection 2236 01:45:55,660 --> 01:45:53,840 and I would say if you like the 2237 01:45:57,220 --> 01:45:55,670 television series brother notice you 2238 01:46:00,120 --> 01:45:57,230 would like cash flows Cadillac it has 2239 01:46:03,940 --> 01:46:00,130 that sort of that sort of humor but the 2240 01:46:05,890 --> 01:46:03,950 spy craft and stuff that is I tried to 2241 01:46:07,870 --> 01:46:05,900 be as realistic as possible about that 2242 01:46:12,670 --> 01:46:07,880 and not just not just how to be a 2243 01:46:14,230 --> 01:46:12,680 slapstick but yeah but an early arm i 2244 01:46:16,990 --> 01:46:14,240 would say i'm known as a horror writer 2245 01:46:19,180 --> 01:46:17,000 and happening for a while mostly with 2246 01:46:21,190 --> 01:46:19,190 non fiction as i mentioned earlier with 2247 01:46:24,700 --> 01:46:21,200 interviews with other writers and book 2248 01:46:27,010 --> 01:46:24,710 reviews um as a fiction writer that 2249 01:46:31,870 --> 01:46:27,020 that's my favorite Jean would be would 2250 01:46:34,030 --> 01:46:31,880 be weird and supernatural so if if our 2251 01:46:37,750 --> 01:46:34,040 listeners want to hear our one reading 2252 01:46:40,480 --> 01:46:37,760 more on your thoughts on the UFO 2253 01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:40,490 phenomena and such obviously the book is 2254 01:46:45,190 --> 01:46:42,770 book is black lights perspectives on the 2255 01:46:49,480 --> 01:46:45,200 mysterious phenomena your non-fiction 2256 01:46:54,700 --> 01:46:49,490 book if they're now interested in your 2257 01:46:57,820 --> 01:46:54,710 fiction what do any of your works jump 2258 01:46:58,450 --> 01:46:57,830 out as being the closest cross over it's 2259 01:47:00,280 --> 01:46:58,460 like you 2260 01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:00,290 you're interested in UFOs you know 2261 01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:02,570 here's here's my book here's my story to 2262 01:47:09,850 --> 01:47:07,370 read I I see ya um my first novel excuse 2263 01:47:12,970 --> 01:47:09,860 me it's called the untold and that was 2264 01:47:16,470 --> 01:47:12,980 that a lot of basis in a lot of reading 2265 01:47:19,630 --> 01:47:16,480 i did about mind control technology and 2266 01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:19,640 control of mass populations and that 2267 01:47:24,940 --> 01:47:22,010 gist of the book is about a guy who who 2268 01:47:27,070 --> 01:47:24,950 goes up to it is it's upstate New York 2269 01:47:31,740 --> 01:47:27,080 it's all Victorian where's his parents 2270 01:47:34,270 --> 01:47:31,750 vanished and uh try not to spoil it um 2271 01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:34,280 he comes into contact with a 2272 01:47:40,090 --> 01:47:37,810 paramilitary group who are up there for 2273 01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:40,100 kind of kind of the same reason they're 2274 01:47:44,310 --> 01:47:41,450 trying to figure out what's going on and 2275 01:47:48,430 --> 01:47:44,320 it's like a so-called window area and 2276 01:47:50,790 --> 01:47:48,440 the horror stories is it it's based on 2277 01:47:52,930 --> 01:47:50,800 hauntings by elemental beings and that 2278 01:47:56,890 --> 01:47:52,940 came that would be the closest cross 2279 01:48:00,580 --> 01:47:56,900 over between paranormal stuff and there 2280 01:48:02,350 --> 01:48:00,590 are no UFOs but as far as crossovers 2281 01:48:04,690 --> 01:48:02,360 between actual things I've read about 2282 01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:04,700 paranormal phenomena and mixed into 2283 01:48:10,030 --> 01:48:06,170 fiction that would be the book it's 2284 01:48:11,979 --> 01:48:10,040 called the untold okay great and that's 2285 01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:11,989 right there an Amazon paperback and 2286 01:48:18,700 --> 01:48:15,650 ebook yeah all right yeah yeah and even 2287 01:48:20,340 --> 01:48:18,710 hardcover oh and hardcover but for 2288 01:48:26,290 --> 01:48:20,350 Playgirl honey but you're probably dead 2289 01:48:27,630 --> 01:48:26,300 who have a workout right I I do as a 2290 01:48:32,620 --> 01:48:27,640 writer do you have a preference between 2291 01:48:35,620 --> 01:48:32,630 the when you read between formats do you 2292 01:48:37,570 --> 01:48:35,630 still like to crack the the binding on a 2293 01:48:39,370 --> 01:48:37,580 good hard back to your you a paperback 2294 01:48:43,630 --> 01:48:39,380 in your back pocket kind of guy or or 2295 01:48:46,330 --> 01:48:43,640 are you just wrong okay yes pepper um I 2296 01:48:49,300 --> 01:48:46,340 still prefer to read on paper because 2297 01:48:53,350 --> 01:48:49,310 mostly um I spent a lot of hours every 2298 01:48:55,959 --> 01:48:53,360 day working on online and I that's not 2299 01:48:58,300 --> 01:48:55,969 my favorite formats read on like you 2300 01:49:00,100 --> 01:48:58,310 know to me to novel excuse me for 2301 01:49:02,470 --> 01:49:00,110 actually to read anything that book 2302 01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:02,480 length and even though I I have to do it 2303 01:49:08,260 --> 01:49:05,090 is part of my job as a freelance editor 2304 01:49:10,959 --> 01:49:08,270 but yeah I still prefer books in print I 2305 01:49:12,370 --> 01:49:10,969 know they kill trees but at that point 2306 01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:12,380 there already 2307 01:49:19,090 --> 01:49:15,850 trees grow on trees everybody it's okay 2308 01:49:21,399 --> 01:49:19,100 this is true yeah I feel a little guilty 2309 01:49:23,590 --> 01:49:21,409 saying that but yeah I still prefer you 2310 01:49:27,189 --> 01:49:23,600 know rereading April because you have 2311 01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:27,199 the link stuff on screen for me is kind 2312 01:49:31,419 --> 01:49:29,210 of I don't know it's intrusive in a way 2313 01:49:35,350 --> 01:49:31,429 they're reading a ball or still has that 2314 01:49:40,300 --> 01:49:35,360 at silence aspect to it different 2315 01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:40,310 experience what uh both in the realm of 2316 01:49:47,470 --> 01:49:43,280 your non-fiction book and your own 2317 01:49:48,610 --> 01:49:47,480 personal enjoyment what uh what's on 2318 01:49:49,959 --> 01:49:48,620 your reading list what are you reading 2319 01:49:54,090 --> 01:49:49,969 right now and what would you recommend 2320 01:49:58,720 --> 01:49:54,100 that the podcast UFO listeners check out 2321 01:50:03,100 --> 01:49:58,730 um I read I'm area I read nonfiction and 2322 01:50:04,930 --> 01:50:03,110 I love to read stuff about like ante 2323 01:50:08,590 --> 01:50:04,940 Harris anus how the intelligence 2324 01:50:12,399 --> 01:50:08,600 community works or doesn't work um I 2325 01:50:15,310 --> 01:50:12,409 just read I just reread operate just in 2326 01:50:18,669 --> 01:50:15,320 mind control altered power which came 2327 01:50:20,530 --> 01:50:18,679 out of 1978 and that was it may have 2328 01:50:23,260 --> 01:50:20,540 been the first book that actually 2329 01:50:26,500 --> 01:50:23,270 mentioned and show documents from MK 2330 01:50:29,379 --> 01:50:26,510 ULTRA the CIA's mind control program um 2331 01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:29,389 you popped there for a second can I can 2332 01:50:33,700 --> 01:50:30,560 I get you to repeat the name of the book 2333 01:50:37,209 --> 01:50:33,710 I'm sorry yeah no problem it's called 2334 01:50:41,340 --> 01:50:37,219 Operation mind control and I think it 2335 01:50:46,390 --> 01:50:41,350 was published to 1978 by Walter Bauer Bo 2336 01:50:50,620 --> 01:50:46,400 WRAT I just reread that and I also just 2337 01:50:54,399 --> 01:50:50,630 read the puzzle palace by james bamford 2338 01:50:58,660 --> 01:50:54,409 which is a book about the NSA another 2339 01:51:01,180 --> 01:50:58,670 scary organization and I'm surprised 2340 01:51:03,180 --> 01:51:01,190 that he reports what he does in that 2341 01:51:04,899 --> 01:51:03,190 fourth about that just it's mostly 2342 01:51:06,939 --> 01:51:04,909 technological stuff like how they 2343 01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:06,949 function and how much power they used to 2344 01:51:12,129 --> 01:51:09,290 function I really enjoy stuff like that 2345 01:51:17,620 --> 01:51:12,139 mostly you know how things work all of 2346 01:51:20,260 --> 01:51:17,630 the read books about astronomy even once 2347 01:51:23,229 --> 01:51:20,270 in a while politics although that that's 2348 01:51:26,620 --> 01:51:23,239 bull I freaks me out or it bores me it's 2349 01:51:31,030 --> 01:51:26,630 just like real life but most 2350 01:51:33,550 --> 01:51:31,040 nonfiction and also books about about 2351 01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:33,560 culture like the Ken Hollings book I 2352 01:51:39,189 --> 01:51:37,370 mentioned welcome to Mars politics and 2353 01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:39,199 pop culture in your science look books 2354 01:51:48,910 --> 01:51:46,850 like that historical stuff and so so it 2355 01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:48,920 way as a as a fiction author though you 2356 01:51:56,140 --> 01:51:50,810 don't read anything you don't you don't 2357 01:51:59,740 --> 01:51:56,150 have a favorite old oh yeah yeah I still 2358 01:52:02,080 --> 01:51:59,750 read fiction totally hooked on like the 2359 01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:02,090 period from the late late seventies our 2360 01:52:08,620 --> 01:52:06,290 lab books i return to buy buy buy offers 2361 01:52:13,500 --> 01:52:08,630 of weird fiction like Carl Edward Ladner 2362 01:52:17,470 --> 01:52:13,510 um Clive Barker and even before that 2363 01:52:23,709 --> 01:52:17,480 like MMR james henry james who wrote the 2364 01:52:27,879 --> 01:52:23,719 turn of the school for and almost all 2365 01:52:29,590 --> 01:52:27,889 recent letters i enjoyed an teen who i 2366 01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:29,600 think almost single-handedly he's 2367 01:52:34,810 --> 01:52:31,850 responsible with it or not for reviving 2368 01:52:36,540 --> 01:52:34,820 zombies doing a book called the rising 2369 01:52:40,930 --> 01:52:36,550 that was published in i think it was 2370 01:52:43,300 --> 01:52:40,940 2003 and then that got this is a huge 2371 01:52:45,399 --> 01:52:43,310 bestseller and after that can this 2372 01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:45,409 progression of his hairless progression 2373 01:52:53,020 --> 01:52:51,050 of zombie books and you know movies and 2374 01:52:56,350 --> 01:52:53,030 i'm not against there's only a huge fan 2375 01:53:00,310 --> 01:52:56,360 George George Romero style by living dad 2376 01:53:02,110 --> 01:53:00,320 dated that dawn of the dead arm when it 2377 01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:02,120 comes to fiction yeah I'm usually either 2378 01:53:08,379 --> 01:53:04,850 reading horror fiction and there I 2379 01:53:10,959 --> 01:53:08,389 really enjoy the rain Joyce willows like 2380 01:53:13,360 --> 01:53:10,969 Michael Connelly full of those letters 2381 01:53:17,100 --> 01:53:13,370 it is david morrell especially who 2382 01:53:20,500 --> 01:53:17,110 because a lot of crossover into horror 2383 01:53:21,790 --> 01:53:20,510 thinks that nature have you ever we're 2384 01:53:27,010 --> 01:53:21,800 gonna get back to you and say i have you 2385 01:53:30,010 --> 01:53:27,020 ever read any of anything that's kind of 2386 01:53:33,340 --> 01:53:30,020 straddles horror and folklore such as 2387 01:53:36,100 --> 01:53:33,350 the manly Wade Wellman books which oh 2388 01:53:39,910 --> 01:53:36,110 yeah the john the balladeer and that 2389 01:53:40,580 --> 01:53:39,920 that type of thing yeah I have like you 2390 01:53:45,770 --> 01:53:40,590 I have 2391 01:53:49,939 --> 01:53:45,780 um God the lost in the working i think 2392 01:53:53,270 --> 01:53:49,949 it's called oh yeah yeah yeah hey woman 2393 01:53:54,530 --> 01:53:53,280 and he was he was a neighbor of college 2394 01:53:57,500 --> 01:53:54,540 with Wagner in chapel hill north 2395 01:54:00,379 --> 01:53:57,510 carolina in fact Wagner's a pair of man 2396 01:54:03,169 --> 01:54:00,389 they were a woman in his final days um 2397 01:54:04,490 --> 01:54:03,179 yeah i really enjoy him i wish i could 2398 01:54:08,209 --> 01:54:04,500 have thought to mention and now i have 2399 01:54:11,959 --> 01:54:08,219 thanks to you yeah his fighters mixes 2400 01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:11,969 fall apart incredible stuff did I don't 2401 01:54:19,459 --> 01:54:15,570 land sale as a similar thing yes yes one 2402 01:54:21,229 --> 01:54:19,469 of these days um I I want to fight Joe 2403 01:54:25,189 --> 01:54:21,239 lansdale but that's just uh that's a 2404 01:54:27,290 --> 01:54:25,199 that's I cuz here yeah well my dad he 2405 01:54:30,439 --> 01:54:27,300 has a martial arts school I have a 2406 01:54:33,950 --> 01:54:30,449 martial arts school there you go throw 2407 01:54:37,160 --> 01:54:33,960 down Oh Poppins got it happen there 2408 01:54:41,209 --> 01:54:37,170 exactly sure you know you live you'll be 2409 01:54:42,379 --> 01:54:41,219 a sort of close to him you know I I had 2410 01:54:43,939 --> 01:54:42,389 a long I used to be a professional 2411 01:54:46,070 --> 01:54:43,949 magician and I had a long-standing 2412 01:54:49,850 --> 01:54:46,080 challenges like I will fistfight any 2413 01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:49,860 Vegas magician just to prove who was the 2414 01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:52,770 best um and it never came about for some 2415 01:54:59,089 --> 01:54:54,090 reason i don't i don't know why that was 2416 01:55:03,109 --> 01:54:59,099 uh isn't he'll come out say oh yeah big 2417 01:55:05,589 --> 01:55:03,119 guy and yeah I know I he actually seems 2418 01:55:08,750 --> 01:55:05,599 like it would happen like I could see 2419 01:55:11,180 --> 01:55:08,760 that happening but it would be fun I 2420 01:55:12,709 --> 01:55:11,190 think that oh yeah i think that if you 2421 01:55:16,149 --> 01:55:12,719 actually need that kind of a proposed 2422 01:55:19,280 --> 01:55:16,159 fulfill Lanza he would say well alright 2423 01:55:20,419 --> 01:55:19,290 he probably qualify it somehow but I 2424 01:55:23,660 --> 01:55:20,429 think I don't think you would back down 2425 01:55:25,939 --> 01:55:23,670 from ya huh which is which is fine it's 2426 01:55:29,899 --> 01:55:25,949 I think it'd be a blast do for charity 2427 01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:29,909 but uh oh yeah I think I need to sell 2428 01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:34,290 some more books first haha yeah I by the 2429 01:55:39,140 --> 01:55:36,090 way I did I did check out years i 2430 01:55:42,800 --> 01:55:39,150 sampled it so far and as very very cool 2431 01:55:47,390 --> 01:55:42,810 stuff I say thank you i'm not there i'm 2432 01:55:50,290 --> 01:55:47,400 doing my spread that the the idea of you 2433 01:55:53,570 --> 01:55:50,300 know people don't don't know the rich 2434 01:55:53,960 --> 01:55:53,580 literary tradition of of asia and the 2435 01:55:55,940 --> 01:55:53,970 fact 2436 01:55:57,920 --> 01:55:55,950 all those terrible kung fu movies um 2437 01:56:00,950 --> 01:55:57,930 actually a lot of them are based on 2438 01:56:02,780 --> 01:56:00,960 books and they're really good books yeah 2439 01:56:05,530 --> 01:56:02,790 that that is another that'sthat's a 2440 01:56:09,170 --> 01:56:05,540 little-known branch you know of writing 2441 01:56:11,510 --> 01:56:09,180 but and the crossover in the movies yeah 2442 01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:11,520 I mean even even when you know Crouching 2443 01:56:15,380 --> 01:56:13,410 Tiger Hidden Dragon huge success based 2444 01:56:16,910 --> 01:56:15,390 on a novel they did not translate the 2445 01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:16,920 novel they wrote a novelization of the 2446 01:56:22,940 --> 01:56:21,210 film yeah crazy but backed back to your 2447 01:56:25,700 --> 01:56:22,950 books we only have a couple minutes left 2448 01:56:28,900 --> 01:56:25,710 on everybody can catch up with you 2449 01:56:31,670 --> 01:56:28,910 obvious on amazon do you have a website 2450 01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:31,680 yeah i have a i have a blog it's called 2451 01:56:39,260 --> 01:56:35,370 the night runner and to get there it's 2452 01:56:43,550 --> 01:56:39,270 denied run dot wordpress.com and i try 2453 01:56:45,710 --> 01:56:43,560 and update it um I you know it's hit or 2454 01:56:47,780 --> 01:56:45,720 miss for me without without however how 2455 01:56:49,100 --> 01:56:47,790 busy I am with all this stuff right try 2456 01:56:52,340 --> 01:56:49,110 and updated at least once or twice a 2457 01:56:54,500 --> 01:56:52,350 month which I know is not enough but I 2458 01:56:56,420 --> 01:56:54,510 do talk about UFOs and paranormal 2459 01:56:59,200 --> 01:56:56,430 phenomena the phenomena there 2460 01:57:01,580 --> 01:56:59,210 exclusively that's called the night one 2461 01:57:03,410 --> 01:57:01,590 onward brigandage are you and we're 2462 01:57:04,700 --> 01:57:03,420 probably just search for your name on 2463 01:57:07,310 --> 01:57:04,710 WordPress two and come up with you I 2464 01:57:09,650 --> 01:57:07,320 would yeah sure I think even if you just 2465 01:57:12,980 --> 01:57:09,660 type my name into Google it'll bring up 2466 01:57:15,470 --> 01:57:12,990 a night on the first page does it is 2467 01:57:17,090 --> 01:57:15,480 your blog connected to your Amazon 2468 01:57:21,410 --> 01:57:17,100 author page that's a great way to find 2469 01:57:23,510 --> 01:57:21,420 that stuff too um yeah it actually this 2470 01:57:25,730 --> 01:57:23,520 listed there so there you go amazon is 2471 01:57:28,460 --> 01:57:25,740 the place to go to set to find out 2472 01:57:30,790 --> 01:57:28,470 what's happening with Bill yes I would 2473 01:57:34,610 --> 01:57:30,800 need a place over the year your gateway 2474 01:57:36,590 --> 01:57:34,620 and well here comes to music thanks for 2475 01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:36,600 appearing with us tonight it was a lot 2476 01:57:39,620 --> 01:57:37,770 of fun having you on thanks for 2477 01:57:42,980 --> 01:57:39,630 everybody for listening Martin will be 2478 01:57:45,410 --> 01:57:42,990 back next week and everybody keep your 2479 01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:45,420 eyes out in the sky check out that lunar 2480 01:58:29,460 --> 01:57:48,090 eclipse the sunday night yeah thanks a